I've had the motoport Ultra Il mesh kevlar pants with the Gortex liners since 2003. They are stiff at first but do soften up with use. They are easy to get in and out of. i mainly wear them with shorts but can easily wear over jeans. I only use the liner if the day starts out raining, they can be time consuming putting them on on the side of the road (I tend to wait too long to pull off), I use an overpant for those times. I have had one time when the bike didn't want to stay under me and unless it is pointed out the minor scuffing is not very noticeable. They are NOT inexpensive but I have only had the leg zippers replaced in 18 years, the stretch waist band will be done at the end of this season. I would buy these again if I had to replace them.