Japanese D.I.D chain maintenance video

[petshark]

 

Only the key messages are translated unfortunately but this one I found interesting:

No hard bristles: The guys from D.I.D use a soft toothbrush. The typical grunge brush that I've been using has very hard bristles but I don't think they would be able to reach that far. Still D.I.D probably know what they are talking about. I haven't thrown out my old chain yet so I'm tempted to break some links and have a look if the rings are damaged. Has anyone done this?

[piotrek]

4 hours ago, petshark said:

No hard bristles: The guys from D.I.D use a soft toothbrush. The typical grunge brush that I've been using has very hard bristles but I don't think they would be able to reach that far.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bristles on a grunge brush caused damage to o-rings, if used with force... as I think the tool is intended to be used. I have one somewhere... use it on grunge, just not on my chain. I use a plain old 1" paint brush to work gear oil onto the chain. If I have to clean the chain, I will spray it with WD-40 and wipe clean with a rag, then lube with oil. Soft bristle toothbrush a good idea.

Edited May 19, 2021 by piotrek

[Lone Wolf]

5 hours ago, petshark said:

The typical grunge brush that I've been using has very hard bristles but I don't think they would be able to reach that far. 

I stopped using my Grunge brush about 5 years ago when I noticed on an older bike with an older chain, pieces of O-ring hanging out of place while I was cleaning it. Hard to say if the brush CAUSED that damage, or was just pulling out tattered O-rings that were dried out from age (prior owner stored the bike).

I switched over to a mason jar full of kerosene and a paint brush (soft bristles). I think that's all you need on a street bike, the grit and dirt jumps off with the kerosene.

Historically a "grunge" brush was good for dirt bikes in the mud, and a lot of those older bikes did not run O-rings but that is changing.

[petshark]

12 hours ago, piotrek said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the bristles on a grunge brush caused damage to o-rings, if used with force... as I think the tool is intended to be used. I have one somewhere... use it on grunge, just not on my chain. I use a plain old 1" paint brush to work gear oil onto the chain. If I have to clean the chain, I will spray it with WD-40 and wipe clean with a rag, then lube with oil. Soft bristle toothbrush a good idea.

I do exactly the same except I spray it with kerosene instead of WD40. I have used the grunge brush a few times but to be honest almost nothing sticks to the chain since I've started using gear oil.

I will retire the grunge brush and switch to a soft toothbrush when a brush is needed. I like the D.I.D tip to use a soft cloth (like a bathroom towel). That should grab a lot more dirt than the strips of old t-shirts that I've been using. Stupid question: do you wash or throw away those rags? I'm guessing that the word rag implies that you throw it away but just checking.

10 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Historically a "grunge" brush was good for dirt bikes in the mud, and a lot of those older bikes did not run O-rings but that is changing.

That makes total sense. A lot of instructional video's still recommend them but it's just old habits probably.

[betoney]

1 hour ago, petshark said:

I like the D.I.D tip to use a soft cloth (like a bathroom towel). That should grab a lot more dirt than the strips of old t-shirts that I've been using. Stupid question: do you wash or throw away those rags? I'm guessing that the word rag implies that you throw it away but just checking.

Just TRY and wash a load of greasy rags in the washing machine and see how the wife reacts... 😲 

When my bath towels get old, they become shop rags.

 

[Wintersdark]

18 hours ago, petshark said:

 

Only the key messages are translated unfortunately but this one I found interesting:

No hard bristles: The guys from D.I.D use a soft toothbrush. The typical grunge brush that I've been using has very hard bristles but I don't think they would be able to reach that far. Still D.I.D probably know what they are talking about. I haven't thrown out my old chain yet so I'm tempted to break some links and have a look if the rings are damaged. Has anyone done this?

Yes.  I had a three way nylon bristled chain brush I used for my chain and utterly destroyed the stock chain on my MT07 with it.  Broke lots of the O-rings.  Will never use such brushes again.  They're totally unnecessary anyways - you can just use a rag, and if you want to clean the link plates you could even use a brass brush - but only from the side, where you can't contact the o-rings.  Those "three way" brushes though?  Never again.  I'd never again bring a brush to the chain edge where it can contact o-rings unless it's no harder than a paintbrush.

[Wintersdark]

Rags: I use microfiber cloths, because old t-shirts and stuff never worked well for me and old towels just fall apart.  They're a bit spendy to be single use, so I put them in a nice, safe, plastic bucket where there's no fire hazard whatsoever and once I get a lot, I hand wash them in the bucket with a bunch of dawn dishsoap, THEN do a load through the washing machine to get them properly clean.  Run an empty load as well after to be safe :)

Do this while the wife isn't home.

[nanikore]

As far as cleaners, I've tried a load of different ones over the years from dedicated brand ones (e.g. Yamalube, Wako, Motul) to WD-40/Kure5-56 to kerosene, but never found one (yet) which blew me away. Kerosene wins on the price / performance, but last weekend I was using the last of some Yamalube cleaner and 'dry' lubricant (as it's called here) as they were on offer - worked fine and weren't insanely priced.

Same for 'lubricants' too - tried oil variants, drier wax ones and each seems to have pros and cons, but not found one yet to rule them all.

As for rags... been using some paper based ones the local DIY shop sell which work well, and the odd old t-shirt. I'd never thought to wash one though, as I'd be imaging residue in the machine. Have you seen any issues from that?

For brushes, I used fairly soft brushes bought in bulk from the local bike supplies shop, though I did try the 3 way brushes, and whilst they save a bit of time, I'm not massively convinced about them as they gunk up quite quickly I find. Oddly when I was buying some bits this weekend the shop had a big bucket of them on sale, and I was asking if the bristles were too harsh for O/X ring, and the staff said they were fine (to be expected I suppose). I'd be very interested if there was some evidence that they could harm the seals.

 

[Ride365]

I NEVER use any kind of cleaner, WD40, kerosene on my chains, nor will a brush of any kind touch my chain. All you need to do is take a lightly oiled rag and wipe down the chain occasionally, anything else IMHO is counterproductive and perhaps lessens the life of the chain. LUBE should stay around the orings, a brush or cleaner will take it out. Chains will mostly self clean anyways, most I will do is lightly spray with water and then dry off/wipe down with the oil soaked rag.....then apply lube of your choice or not.  Nope my chains don't rust or kink, they also typically last 20K plus miles no problem.

[kilo3]

4 hours ago, betoney said:

Just TRY and wash a load of greasy rags in the washing machine and see how the wife reacts... 😲

I was caught washing a very expensive set of 3 piece wheels for my car in the bathtub.  I could not explain my reasoning without unveiling the cost of the wheels.  Lots of mumbling ensued, the ol' catch 22 wins again.

[piotrek]

10 hours ago, petshark said:

do you wash or throw away those rags? I'm guessing that the word rag implies that you throw it away but just checking.

LOL... I shake the loose stuff off and re-use it until it looks done and not contributing to the cause... then I chuck it in the trash.

[petshark]

On 5/19/2021 at 8:45 PM, Ride365 said:

I NEVER use any kind of cleaner, WD40, kerosene on my chains, nor will a brush of any kind touch my chain. All you need to do is take a lightly oiled rag and wipe down the chain occasionally, anything else IMHO is counterproductive and perhaps lessens the life of the chain. LUBE should stay around the orings, a brush or cleaner will take it out. Chains will mostly self clean anyways, most I will do is lightly spray with water and then dry off/wipe down with the oil soaked rag.....then apply lube of your choice or not.  Nope my chains don't rust or kink, they also typically last 20K plus miles no problem.

Interesting! As a 365 rider you probably ride through all weather conditions?

After reading a lot about this, it does seem that the difference between cleaning and lubing like crazy and what some would consider neglect does not make a huge amount of difference in chain life. There's so many different opinions and ways to maintain a chain and when nothing bad happens people are convinced that their way is best way to do it. If that is true I choose the method with the least work involved. More riding, less cleaning. 😎

One argument that still makes sense to me though is that lube and dirt will form a grinding paste around the o/x rings that will not be sprayed off with water.

In the end nothing beats real-world long-term reports so if your chain has no seized links up until 20K doing it this way and you ride through all kinds of weather, I am sold on your method.

On 5/19/2021 at 6:23 PM, nanikore said:

For brushes, I used fairly soft brushes bought in bulk from the local bike supplies shop, though I did try the 3 way brushes, and whilst they save a bit of time, I'm not massively convinced about them as they gunk up quite quickly I find. Oddly when I was buying some bits this weekend the shop had a big bucket of them on sale, and I was asking if the bristles were too harsh for O/X ring, and the staff said they were fine (to be expected I suppose). I'd be very interested if there was some evidence that they could harm the seals.

I see them everywhere on sale and everyone seems to manufacture them as well.

Seeing that you are in Japan. Is there any useful info in that video that was not in the very succinct translations? Perhaps even about the hard bristles?

Edited May 21, 2021 by petshark
readability

[Wintersdark]

On 5/19/2021 at 1:01 PM, kilo3 said:

I was caught washing a very expensive set of 3 piece wheels for my car in the bathtub.  I could not explain my reasoning without unveiling the cost of the wheels.  Lots of mumbling ensued, the ol' catch 22 wins again.

lol my wife caught me doing something like this once.  Was the windshield for my MT07.  Mind you, I was in the bathtub as well.  She didn't ask, or even say anything.  She just stared for a moment, then backed out of the bathroom and closed the door. 

Seriously, though, it was a way easier way to wet sand the windshield down and get it all new looking.  

*shrugs* Seems perfectly normal to me.

[Wintersdark]

18 hours ago, petshark said:

Interesting! As a 365 rider you probably ride through all weather conditions?

After reading a lot of

about this, it does seem that the difference between cleaning and lubing like crazy and what some would consider neglect does not make a huge amount of difference in chain life. There's so many different opinions and ways to maintain a chain and when nothing bad happens people are convinced that their way is best way to do it. If that is true I choose the method with the least work involved. More riding, less cleaning. 😎

One argument that still makes sense to me though is that lube and dirt will form a grinding paste around the o/x rings that will not be sprayed off with water.

In the end nothing beats real-world long-term reports so if your chain has no seized links up until 20K doing doing it this way and you ride through all kinds of weather, I am sold on your method.

I see them everywhere on sale and everyone seems to manufacture them as well.

I see you are in Japan. Is there any useful info in that video that was not in the very succinct translations? Perhaps even about the hard bristles?

This is why auto oilers are so great.   Dirt and lube don't form a paste anywhere because you deliberately use thin oil for the chain.  The objective is to have it saturate the chain and be flung off, carrying dirt and grit with it.  This works exceptionally well - my Tracer's chain has well over 10,000kms without being so much as wiped off, and looks great.  

Is it better than people's particular manual methods?  No idea, and I don't even care much.  What I do care about is that my chain always looks nice, is always adequately lubed, and most importantly: I don't have to do a damned thing other than pour a bit of oil into a reservoir every now and again. 

And yeah, this is including riding in rain, snow, slush, salt, etc - Calgary winters are a sea of salt and dirt. 

[petshark]

4 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

This is why auto oilers are so great.   Dirt and lube don't form a paste anywhere because you deliberately use thin oil for the chain.  The objective is to have it saturate the chain and be flung off, carrying dirt and grit with it.  This works exceptionally well - my Tracer's chain has well over 10,000kms without being so much as wiped off, and looks great.  

Is it better than people's particular manual methods?  No idea, and I don't even care much.  What I do care about is that my chain always looks nice, is always adequately lubed, and most importantly: I don't have to do a damned thing other than pour a bit of oil into a reservoir every now and again. 

And yeah, this is including riding in rain, snow, slush, salt, etc - Calgary winters are a sea of salt and dirt. 

I have no idea why but I don't like the idea of an auto oiler. If I didn't have a car and had to commute every day I am sure I would get one. Thanks for letting me know they work so well though, maybe I'll change my mind some day and it's good to have options.