Roughness and noise at low throttle openings

[Northern900]

11 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

 

Mine does that too, the wierd kind of low frequency vibration around 3500rpm under very minimal throttle.  It's been bothering me more lately, and I've been contemplating taking it into a shop to have them diagnose it - though I fear they'll just do the "I don't see what the problem is" thing.  It's always been there, but gotten very gradually worse over the miles.

I've heard about the clutch rubber dampers, and am sure mine are shot, so if that's related it'd make sense. You can feel it in my Tracer, particularly when cold, when you move from engine braking to throttle there's a noticable clunk unless you're really gentle.  And no, not chain slack.  It seems it just clunks slower when the bike is cold making it more noticable and things move slicker once it's warmed up so it gets mixed in with normal driveline slack.

 

Edit: I should note, mine is a 2019 Tracer GT, so it has a slipper clutch stock but still does this.

I have exactly the same thing happening with my 2019 Tracer GT. I intend to dive in to the clutch once winter arrives. 

[betoney]

12 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

 

Mine does that too, the wierd kind of low frequency vibration around 3500rpm under very minimal throttle.  It's been bothering me more lately, and I've been contemplating taking it into a shop to have them diagnose it - though I fear they'll just do the "I don't see what the problem is" thing.  It's always been there, but gotten very gradually worse over the miles.

I've heard about the clutch rubber dampers, and am sure mine are shot, so if that's related it'd make sense. You can feel it in my Tracer, particularly when cold, when you move from engine braking to throttle there's a noticable clunk unless you're really gentle.  And no, not chain slack.  It seems it just clunks slower when the bike is cold making it more noticable and things move slicker once it's warmed up so it gets mixed in with normal driveline slack.

 

Edit: I should note, mine is a 2019 Tracer GT, so it has a slipper clutch stock but still does this.

 

51 minutes ago, Northern900 said:

I have exactly the same thing happening with my 2019 Tracer GT. I intend to dive in to the clutch once winter arrives. 

I took mine in to diagnose this same issue a few weeks ago and they determined it was the clutch basket, very slight lateral movement detected.  It is being replaced under warranty for the second time, I am at 65k miles now and the first time it was replaced was around 30k-32k.  The extended Y.E.S. coverage has paid for itself on this bike.

All of the parts were finally delivered to the shop so I have an appointment to have it replaced in 2 weeks.

[2and3cylinders]

3 hours ago, betoney said:

 

I took mine in to diagnose this same issue a few weeks ago and they determined it was the clutch basket, very slight lateral movement detected.  It is being replaced under warranty for the second time, I am at 65k miles now and the first time it was replaced was around 30k-32k.  The extended Y.E.S. coverage has paid for itself on this bike.

All of the parts were finally delivered to the shop so I have an appointment to have it replaced in 2 weeks.

When did you get your 15?

I purchased my 15 in 16 along with the 4 year YES (for $370) which technically expired on 2021-06-26.

Is Yamaha extending the coverage?

I've never needed / used the YES.  Probably wouldn't apply if it was extended (or would it), as I installed a XSR slip-assist clutch on 20717-04-18 at 10,920 miles (now at 50k), which (like the original assembly) made / makes various noises (always has) but doesn't seem to bother me or performance.  Not sure what to listen or feel for despite this threads various descriptions. 

[betoney]

20 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

When did you get your 15?

I purchased my 15 in 16 along with the 4 year YES (for $370) which technically expired on 2021-06-26.

I bought my '15 in December of 2016, so my 4-year extended coverage expires in less than 3 months.

I have used the coverage several times; replacement front calipers, 12v socket, ABS pump and the clutch basket now for the 2nd time. 

I am fortunate to have a very good relationship with everyone at my local dealership, I have never had them argue about or refuse a warranty repair, in fact its usually at their insistence that they use the warranty for legitimate repairs.

[2and3cylinders]

What were the symptoms for the faulty calipers and ABS pump.

Sometimes when I haven't ridden my FJ for a few days when I first squeeze the lever (I have a 2014 R1 Brembo radial MC and 320 mm rotors, with Speigler lines & either Vesrah RJL or EBC HH+ pads) the lever travel is longer, softer, and then of course I immediately squeeze again or two and it firms up.  I like the slightly longer lever travel and more progressive feel the R1 MC offers but don't understand the occasional lack of pressure.   Could it be caliper pistons not retracting evenly or air in the ABS pump?

I'm due to flush and bleed the brakes again this off season (I use a vacuum bleeder) but have never had the chutzpah to trigger the ABS pump after first bleed by braking on grass or slippery pavement.  I have triggered the pump a few times braking over the ripples (my suspension is nicely massaged with .95 Sonics and a Razor R shock) on one particular turn on SE WI's mini TOTD, Waterville Rd, which is off north ZZ and south of C near Dousman and Eagle.

Any ideas?

[kilo3]

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

but have never had the chutzpah to trigger the ABS pump after first bleed by braking on grass or slippery pavement.  I have triggered the pump a few times braking over the ripples (my suspension is nicely massaged

Someone once told me that if your bike has abs and you don't brake enough to cycle it on dry pavement testing emergency stop, you're not braking hard enough.

That was one of the first things I had my wife do when she was learning. Emergency stop to get the feel of abs and how hard she can actually brake.

 

[betoney]

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

What were the symptoms for the faulty calipers and ABS pump.

In the first year of owning the bike, I had very uneven brake pad wear, almost as if all 4 of the pads were concave, they had contact wear on the center portion but not around the edges.  They determined that the pads weren't riding in the calipers correctly and the pistons weren't contacting the pads perpendicular.  After replacing the calipers, the brake pads have worn correctly.

The abs pump was replaced because the back brakes would lock up and skid instead of pulsing like normal ABS.  The shop hooked their ABS tester and could repeatedly duplicate the irregular function. 

[2and3cylinders]

4 hours ago, kilo3 said:

Someone once told me that if your bike has abs and you don't brake enough to cycle it on dry pavement testing emergency stop, you're not braking hard enough.

That was one of the first things I had my wife do when she was learning. Emergency stop to get the feel of abs and how hard she can actually brake.

 

This is my first bike with ABS, fuel injection and traction control.  From what I've read, they are fairly basic and relatively crude ABS and TC systems.  When I'm able, after I flush & bleed the brake system, maybe I'll attempt activating the ABS braking on dry pavement.  Up until now my lower back, neck and shoulders have limited how I ride and how aggressive I can turn and brake.  By next spring I hope to have my shoulder(s) fixed, and I'm now recovering from L3~5 decompression, fixation and fusion.  It's been hard just getting it on and off the center stand and rolling it around the shop and while parking...  😖

But thanks for the advice.

[Buggy Nate]

That master cylinder is now over 6-7 years old. Has it ever had replacement seals? They are a high wear item and are supposed to be replaced regularly. Some manufacturers call for every four years. What I have found with the radial master cylinders is that due to the larger pistons they can cock in the bore and wear faster than a conventional and will introduce air into the system. Early Gsxr radial master cylinders were notorious for this.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Buggy Nate

[2and3cylinders]

The radial MC was brand new when placed in service maybe 3 years or so ago, and I flush and bleed every season with syn DOT 4.  I recall a similar issue with the OEM MC after I installed the Spiegler lines.  I will investigate and report later but don't want to hijack this thread.

[bwringer]

On 9/8/2021 at 2:09 PM, bwringer said:

Partshark slipper kit ordered... will report back if and when it arrives and after I get it installed.

Partshark called today to let me know the slipper kit is in!

Ordered September 8, arrived September 21... not bad nowadays what with, you know, "everything", and wonder of wonders they actually called me. They're local, so I'll buzz over there in a day or two to pick up my goodies.

Will report back after a weekend wrenching session...

[2and3cylinders]

Be sure to soak the friction plates in clean engine oil overnight then pat them off with paper towel before attempting to measure overall friction - drive plate stack thickness; which is critical to proper function.

[bwringer]

I got the slipper kit installed Saturday, and put a few hundred miles on the bike.

Overall, I'm pretty damn happy!

- Installation was pretty straightforward for an experienced wrench twiddler, but getting the CORRECT information about what plates go in what order is beyond maddening. Finally got 'er dun did.

- Plate stack (using my old plates) was .2mm below the max in the specs, so I'll call that excellent.

- Had a bit of confusion caused by the spring on the actuator lever. After a couple of tries at getting the right angle, it was easy enough to disconnect the spring from its little nubbin temporarily to line up the dot and the arrow.

- MUCH lighter clutch pull. Not that this was a problem or anything for my gnarled meathooks, but it does make dealing with heavy traffic a little more pleasant, and generally feels oh-so-much-more deeeluxe.

- Gee, this slipper thing is pretty neat. Just bang a couple of downshifts and leeeeean... no disturbance. Weird.

- The biggest benefit is one no one really mentioned; the "friction zone" is wider and more linear. Much smoother pulling away, and much smoother upshifts too.

- Definitely less noise and whacking around with the clutch out in neutral.

- Also, the damper rubbers in my clutch basket seemed just fine. TIght, little to no movement.

- I also changed the clutch cable. The old one was just fine, but it was the old doomed design with the sharp corner. I attached a string to the bottom end of the old one, then gently pulled it out. There was one point at the corner of the radiator where it hung up, so I bent the little retainer a bit to let it pass. Used the string and some gentle wiggling and twisting to pull the new one into the exact correct position from the top without needing to remove any bodywork.

- Fresh oil, fresh rear tire, and wiped off some of the bugs just because.

 

HOWEVER: my original complaint (noise and roughness at low load) is virtually unchanged. So I'm planning to just chalk that up to a quirk of the engine (like the 6th gear whine) and ignore it from here on out.

But the slipper clutch kit is definitely a worthwhile upgrade.

[PhotoAl]

On my 2020 GT I've noticed something similar to what you are describing originally.  At very light throttle openings and slow speeds it seems to me like it runs a moment then coasts a moment then runs again.  It's not really jerky but almost like a surging but it's not.  There is geardtrain noise as best I can describe it is loading then unloading.  I noticed it more after I changed chain and sprockets they they are all OEM or equivalent.  Still doing it 6,300 miles later.  Not worried about it but think just the way it is.  Chain is on the loose side.  Bike has 17,500 miles on it - only had it about 58 weeks.

[2and3cylinders]

Never noticed much wider engagement, smoother maybe but again the -2 cable helped there too.  Love skipping down and feeding out the clutch while opening it up!  However I do so smoothly because I'm used to big twins and carbs.

After probably 25,000 + miles I realized the CP3 likes revs and started riding it more like a two smoke, holding a lower gear in the twisted enhances progress, and the S/A clutch really helps there.  It seems smoother and more responsive at higher revs.  Again coming after decades of big twin sport bikes it still is a difficult transition.

I'm now drooling over 22 Trumpet Speed Triple RS...the back one with a screen, red tank grips, a tank bag, tail bag and sleek panniers it could be the ultimate interstate missile!