Jump to content

Dual sports, Tracer mods, Tenere costs...


Wintersdark

Recommended Posts

So, I'm interested in doing some light off road riding.  Or more likely on road, but dirt road.  But who knows where it'll go long term.

 

Factors:

* I need street legal - while I have a trailer, I'm really not into elaborate multivehicle trips, and it's a big PITA with the family.  Hard requirement here, I'm not looking to haul toys.

* The nature of dirt riding is inherently hard on equipment, and the Tracer is expensive and primary transportation.

* I'm not sure what my physical capabilities are now.  I'm old, my knees are.. well, not what they were... I'm just not super rugged myself anymore.

* I'd prefer something that can function as a winter bike.  The Tracer is quite capable here, but expensive + fragile.

* For sure, I could slap some offroad friendly rubber on the Tracer, but that removes the ability to do the zoomy twisties I love so much and frequently changing tires is prohibitively expensive/a huge PITA even if I where to by a changer.  Also, I'd be risking a (for me anyways) very expensive, not particularly rugged bike in a situation where I'm very likely to crash a few times.  

* A 650 class thumper dual sport would be a middle ground, but they're pretty spendy these days: basically looking at 3500-4000cdn for a 2001-2004 dr650/xr650l and a little less for a KLR.  Carbureted, however, and not at all winter reliable. 

* A Tenere 700.  Expensive as well,but significantly more fun (god I love the CP2!) and definitely winter capable - my MT07 did better in the winter than my Tracer.  Big investment, however, and if I end up not being really into offroad play or simply physically incapable that seems like a big loss to take on a bike you can't buy used.

* A random older Tracer-lite bike like a weeStrom or versus 650 or what have you and kit it up for offroad.  I fear here I'm just going to compare it too directly to the Tracer and not enjoy it.  Comparable cost to a dual sport, much poorer offroad and way heavier.  Weight offroad may be a breakpoint for me physically.  Winter capable, but.... Not bringing anything to the table the Tracer couldn't do way better other than being cheap, but... I doubt I'd choose to ride it.

* Many better offroad options (ktms in particular) tend to cost a lot more and are very hard to obtain which gets me very close to T7 cost.  If I'm spending that much...

* Brand new dr650/klr650 can be had for around 7000cdn. Hold value very well and are largely indestructible. So thats an option.  But again... If I'm spending that much, maybe I should just go all the way and finance a Tenere 700...

* I'd really like a second bike. N+1 beats trying to do everything with one, but I'm not overflowing with spare cash (though there's a strong argument that it'd be cheaper overall with a cheap dual sport vs smashing the Tracer/constantly changing tires etc.

Eh.  I dunno.  

 

Thoughts?  Opinions?  Points I may have missed?  

 

I don't really know what I'm asking.  Covid resurgence has shut things down locally again and I need to get out more.  Doing some offroad play would help me excersize some squid demons independently of riding the Tracer flat out way to fast down winding roads and grinding pegs off, and it's something I can do without screwing around with covid restrictions, masks, and all that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Supporting Member

I'm in a similar situation.

I'd really like something smaller to off road with - say, a CRF250 or thereabouts, but good luck finding anything used at a reasonable price - if at all.

So far every dealership I've visited has nothing similarly small in stock - they're just being all snapped up.  I've yet to find a single T7 in stock anywhere; although realistically it's not the bike I'm actually shopping for - I'm just curious, and it's roughly the same price bracket as a small dual sport.

I looked long and hard at a DRZ, but everything I've learned about them points to the suspension being WAY to soft and one outgrows it quickly.  KLR = too big (for me).

Personally I think this is simply the wrong time to buy - there's just nothing out there.  Demand is crazy high, and supply / production is low.

  • Thumbsup 1

2015 FJ-09 / FJR touring bags / oil plug mod / Evotech rad guard / SW Motech bash plate / VStream touring windshield / Seat Concepts:  Sport Touring / Vcyclenut ABS rings (speedo correction) / Cosmo RAM mount

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
1 hour ago, knyte said:

Personally I think this is simply the wrong time to buy - there's just nothing out there.  Demand is crazy high, and supply / production is low.

It's not just motorcycles. It's cars, trucks RV's and parts for all of them.

Just before covid hit. I could buy a new , middle of the road Ford F250 diesel for ~$65,000. Now a 5 year old one is ~$65,000 . Rv's specifically travel trailers have doubled in price and a decent used one is impossible to find.  Same with cars. My BIL had a Ford Escape on lease for his wife. Lease was up, but nothing for them to lease, so they had to buy it.

My 2016 Ford F150 had a differential failure back in the beginning of August. It is still sitting 980 miles away waiting parts. By the time the parts show up and it's fixed it will have been around 6 weeks. And I still have to fly back to Nashville and get it and drive it home.

Bike dealers here in SOFLA that used to be full of bikes are mostly empty and what they have is way over priced.

With all that said. I agree with @knyte This is not a good time to be looking for anything. YMMV

 

  • Thumbsup 1

"It doesn't matter who walks in, you know the joke is still the same"  Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. USA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was in your exact position about 3-4 months ago. I wanted something for dirt (tons of off roading to be done where I live - forests, desert, and anything in between) but never even considered the FJ09 as it isn't the right tool for the job. I put a deposit down on a T7 with an estimated delivery date of late Sept. In the meantime I was checking craigslist every day and wound up finding an absolute steal 2001 DR650 and went to buy it 30 mins after the ad was posted. Some say it's too heavy but, for the situation you seem to be in (not looking to do very technical riding, rather just something to ride off road for fun once in a while and not break the bank if it's dropped) I highly recommend it. 

  • Thumbsup 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love my Dirt Ninja! It was relatively cheap to build, does street well, does dirt well, weighs less than a T7 or KLR, and I am not sad if it drops. 

Ninja 650s are abundant and often crashed, so they are often cheap to buy. 

I think I have about $3000 USD into my bike. 2007 650R, DRZ400 forks, Vstrom 19" wheel, R1 shock, and lots of little home-made pieces.

20210805_172236.thumb.jpg.008624aabc59d7a2ec79475d79a7ab13.jpg

  • Thumbsup 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Supporting Member

If you plan on doing a bunch of road and highway riding to get to your dirt roads, I would go with the KLR. Not the fastest or the lightest but will get you through most any terrain and it's hard to kill. I have a 15 it was my dirt road, fire trail ,motor home and winter bike up north. It is extremely reliable and easy to work on, look for a gen2 2015 model year and up till they stopped production for the Gen3. Better suspension and seat than the 14 and earlier bikes. Should be able to find a very nice used one with some addons for around $5000 US. 

He who dies with the most toys wins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, roadrash83 said:

If you plan on doing a bunch of road and highway riding to get to your dirt roads, I would go with the KLR.

I second that heartily. I've owned two of these, both pre-2008 models which I highly recommend, and while they have their downsides (heavy, 'doohickey' issues, weak front brake) none were dealbreakers for me. I'm a plonker not an MX'er, so 'heavy' wasn't an issue, especially as NOTHING seems to be able to stop one of these from running forever. (Almost nothing. See 

for an amusing exception)

By now most any used KLR you find should have had the doohickey replaced. And upgrades to the front brake can range from steel lines and better pads up to larger rotors and caliper upgrades. All well documented online.

Yes it's carbureted. But as the KLR is contemporary with stone knives and bearskins, and just as basic, that's generally acceptable. Carb tech is a century old and fairly dependable.

Lots of used bikes out there worthy of consideration. Make a list of your wants and requirements, weight each item for importance, then look at old reviews online and make notes for any bike you are considering. It may not identify the perfect choice, but it should at least weed out the ones you would not find suitable per your list, and should give you a 'top 5' or so to look at seriously.

You won't get cutting edge here. But you will get affordable (relatively these days anyway), cheap to insure and repair.

Best of luck in your hunt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, kilo3 said:

Is converting a dirt bike to street legal an option in the great white north?

No, not really.  It's not just a matter of getting lights and such, if it wasn't a street bike from the OEM, it's basically impossible to insure and no insurance, no street riding.

 

16 hours ago, knyte said:

I'm in a similar situation.

I'd really like something smaller to off road with - say, a CRF250 or thereabouts, but good luck finding anything used at a reasonable price - if at all.

So far every dealership I've visited has nothing similarly small in stock - they're just being all snapped up.  I've yet to find a single T7 in stock anywhere; although realistically it's not the bike I'm actually shopping for - I'm just curious, and it's roughly the same price bracket as a small dual sport.

I looked long and hard at a DRZ, but everything I've learned about them points to the suspension being WAY to soft and one outgrows it quickly.  KLR = too big (for me).

Personally I think this is simply the wrong time to buy - there's just nothing out there.  Demand is crazy high, and supply / production is low.

So, that's where I started.  I think a 250 would be too small for my 300lb frame, but I was looking at DRZ400's and above basically - which then lead into the DR650/KLR650/XR650L.  

But, as a quick look at Kijiji shows, at least here in Alberta you're looking at 3500+ for a ~2001-2004 XR/DR/DRZ, or ~2008 KLR.  That's a fairly big chunk of change.  

Objectively, I agree that as per the market its the wrong time to buy, and @fddriver2 nails it: Everything like that is expensive.  However, the specific reason I'm looking more at dirt is the reason these things are expensive - There's not much else to do right now.  I've got lots of non-motorcycle hobbies, but they're out while covid is a thing, and with restrictions increasing again it's likely going to be a long time to go.

 

13 hours ago, draco_1967 said:

I love my Dirt Ninja! It was relatively cheap to build, does street well, does dirt well, weighs less than a T7 or KLR, and I am not sad if it drops. 

Ninja 650s are abundant and often crashed, so they are often cheap to buy. 

I think I have about $3000 USD into my bike. 2007 650R, DRZ400 forks, Vstrom 19" wheel, R1 shock, and lots of little home-made pieces.

20210805_172236.thumb.jpg.008624aabc59d7a2ec79475d79a7ab13.jpg

I considered this for sure!   But the reality is I'd be paying the same for [insert any older motorcycle to convert here] as I would for a DR650/KLR650, except they'd simply not be as good offroad as those bikes would be, and would require significant expense getting them converted and ready to go.  I'd be looking at ~$6000CAD to do that optimistically and that's assuming everything falls in line, getting used motorcycle parts here is basically impossible (there are no motorcycle wreckers) and shipping from the US is right out of the question.  If a bike was crashed and written off, it'd also be prohibitively expensive to get on the road again as it'd require a full restore to OEM condition to get a salvage title registered, *before* I started modding.

 

13 hours ago, roadrash83 said:

If you plan on doing a bunch of road and highway riding to get to your dirt roads, I would go with the KLR. Not the fastest or the lightest but will get you through most any terrain and it's hard to kill. I have a 15 it was my dirt road, fire trail ,motor home and winter bike up north. It is extremely reliable and easy to work on, look for a gen2 2015 model year and up till they stopped production for the Gen3. Better suspension and seat than the 14 and earlier bikes. Should be able to find a very nice used one with some addons for around $5000 US. 

Not a lot, to be honest.  There's lots of offroad riding close by here, and to be honest I'm looking at "as good offroad as possible" - This, because the Tracer is excellent on road.  If I'm riding on road primarily, I want to be on the Tracer as riding a KLR on road is going to be freaking awful in comparison.  Keeping in mind, for me, good road riding = high traction and power.  So whatever I do needs to be capable of doing highway speeds, but that's all I really care about for on road performance.  I don't really appreciate wind protection, and being a 300lb guy, I don't get blown around appreciably even on light bikes.  

[hr]

Some concerns:

Maybe a silly concern of mine is that if the bikes aren't sufficiently differentiated, it'll just feel like one is a worse bike I just don't want to ride. Maybe this won't be the case, but I'm worried it would. This is a big minus for the KLR for me.  If it's not good enough offroad that I really enjoy offroad riding on it, then I won't enjoy anything on it - because on road it's just not going to compare. 

With the older thumper bikes, a HUGE worry is that I can't ride it for half the year.  It's REALLY tough to get a carbureted bike to start and run reliably in temps well below freezing, and that's half my riding.  That's not a show-stopper, but it does stop the bike from being a fun toy in the winter as well as the summer, which cuts into overall value.  I *would* like to do some ice racing and crashing about in deep snow.  Keeping in mind this is Calgary: There's snow and freezing temps from September through May. 

I want to make sure that whatever I do, I give the adventure aspect a fair shake - that is, get a bike that's going to be as enjoyable as possible offroad.  I feel if I just converted the Tracer (leaving aside "making the Tracer worse at what I love doing with it now") or some other old used bike I could end up with a sub-par adventure bike and just not really enjoy it because of that.

 

Some progress:

I have obtained Wife Approval to just buy a Tenere 700.  This is surprising - I definitely didn't think she'd be on board there with me buying a second new bike, and really wasn't thinking of that as a possibility, but her logic is fairly sound: It's arguably the #2 light adventure ride right now, under the KTM890 Adventure, is much cheaper, is based on a platform I know, am competent working on, and love riding (mmmm CP2).... And if the Adventure Riding thing turns out to either be not sufficiently fun for me (or simply outside of my physical capabilities, which is possible as well) it can be sold for practically purchase price because it is indeed a very desirable bike that's basically not at all available used yet.  Could have it for a year, sell it for pretty close to MSRP, and basically have rented it for a year.  So, that's a realistic possibility.  Of course, that's going to be impacted by how badly I mess it up stomping around offroad on it.  

 

  • Thumbsup 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
15 hours ago, draco_1967 said:

I love my Dirt Ninja! ... 2007 650R, DRZ400 forks, Vstrom 19" wheel, R1 shock, and lots of little home-made pieces.

 

I'm intrigued by the use of the Vstrom wheel.  Cheap, available and tubeless, I've wondered about fitting one on my DR650.  What mods did you have to make for the fitment on the DRZ forks?

  • Thumbsup 1

https://ridemsta.com/oh-tmr/  Riding makes me happy. "Do it or don't do it - you'll regret both." - Soren Kierkegaard

2015 FJ-09, 60k miles, Hord Power ECU, K-Tech suspension, MC Cruise

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

The DR650 is lighter and has a smoother motor than the KLR650.  It does not have the touring tank and alternator.  Tanks are available, as are many accessories and mods.  A newly popular adv bike is the Yam WR250R, which has fuel injection and weighs 300 lbs.

  • Thumbsup 1

https://ridemsta.com/oh-tmr/  Riding makes me happy. "Do it or don't do it - you'll regret both." - Soren Kierkegaard

2015 FJ-09, 60k miles, Hord Power ECU, K-Tech suspension, MC Cruise

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

I considered this for sure!   But the reality is I'd be paying the same for [insert any older motorcycle to convert here] as I would for a DR650/KLR650, except they'd simply not be as good offroad as those bikes would be, and would require significant expense getting them converted and ready to go.  I'd be looking at ~$6000CAD to do that optimistically and that's assuming everything falls in line, getting used motorcycle parts here is basically impossible (there are no motorcycle wreckers) and shipping from the US is right out of the question.  If a bike was crashed and written off, it'd also be prohibitively expensive to get on the road again as it'd require a full restore to OEM condition to get a salvage title registered, *before* I started modding.

That is a bit of a bummer. I knew Canada had some different rules about rebuilding bikes, but I didn't realize it was that tough. That takes the value right out of a bike like mine. 

The T7 seems like a great option though. Very similar performance-wise to what I've built. Better suspension setup though, and plenty of available farkles that don't need to be fabricated. 

1 hour ago, duhg said:

I'm intrigued by the use of the Vstrom wheel.  Cheap, available and tubeless, I've wondered about fitting one on my DR650.  What mods did you have to make for the fitment on the DRZ forks?

They seem to be getting less available (DL1000 wheels at least). They don't pop up on fleabay often, and usually go for around $400. The DRZ forks are in a set of Versys 650 triples, so they are set a little wider than the stock DRZ. The Vstrom spacers fit perfectly, and all I needed was to fab an offset bracket for the brake caliper. The axle is a swing-arm bolt from the Ninja (had a spare from switching swing arms), which is 20mm diameter.  

I can't take 100% credit for my bike. A lot of inspiration by a gent on ADVrider who has built 6 or 7 of these bikes now. Here is my build thread: https://advrider.com/f/threads/yet-another-budget-ninja-mutant-build.1364714/

 

  • Thumbsup 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Supporting Member

If the wife gave you the go ahead to buy the T7 go ahead and get it, that is a no-brainer for sure. Figure in suspension work and crash bars and skid plate.  I thought real hard about buying the T7 before I got the Pan America and I might pick one up down the road, one thing for sure is I don't want the headache of a KTM. Let us know how you like it🙂 

  • Thumbsup 2

He who dies with the most toys wins.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I owned one of the first T7s stateside last year. Awesome off road motorcycle if you have previous off road experience. The tracer is no T7. I’m shopping for another T7 but the current prices are stupid high. I won’t pay that on a $9999 retail motorcycle. I pulled in top dollar on mine when I sold it.

Edited by roy826
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×