Recomended suspension companies for fork and shock upgrades.

[duckie]

Some misinformation in this thread.

Yes a tracer can corner exact and precise as a sport bike. My Tracer GT with stock adjustable suspension stays put wherever I put it in a turn. It turns in when and where I want it. It holds a line out of turns even when hard on the gas.

Put some proper suspension components on a FJ/Tracer you will get sport bike type handling with a comfortable riding position. 

If dont have the skill to ride fast, no suspension upgrade will magically give you the skill to ride fast. Nor will getting another motorcycle.

My gut is telling me he doesnt have the skill to ride fast. This is based on just the questions asked about suspension. A fast rider would know to upgrade the suspension and not ask about it.

How many years of riding the dragon? It takes knowing a road like the back of your hand to be able to truly ride fast on it. I took a rider on 08 cbr1000 with all Ohlins on one of my favorite twisty roads and left him in the dust…….riding a 94 Seca II. Even on the track my mighty Seca and me was leaving 1000 cc sports bike behind.

Just get the suspension upgraded, do some track days. 

 

 

[duckie]

Little tid bit……..A motorcycles center of gravity height effects the amount of lean angle needed for turns. 

For the same turn at the same speed, a motorcycle with a high center gravity as compared to a sport bike does not have to lean as much for the turn.

 

[howie333]

1 hour ago, duckie said:

Some misinformation in this thread.

Yes a tracer can corner exact and precise as a sport bike. My Tracer GT with stock adjustable suspension stays put wherever I put it in a turn. It turns in when and where I want it. It holds a line out of turns even when hard on the gas.

Put some proper suspension components on a FJ/Tracer you will get sport bike type handling with a comfortable riding position. 

If dont have the skill to ride fast, no suspension upgrade will magically give you the skill to ride fast. Nor will getting another motorcycle.

My gut is telling me he doesnt have the skill to ride fast. This is based on just the questions asked about suspension. A fast rider would know to upgrade the suspension and not ask about it.

How many years of riding the dragon? It takes knowing a road like the back of your hand to be able to truly ride fast on it. I took a rider on 08 cbr1000 with all Ohlins on one of my favorite twisty roads and left him in the dust…….riding a 94 Seca II. Even on the track my mighty Seca and me was leaving 1000 cc sports bike behind.

Just get the suspension upgraded, do some track days. 

 

 

ok ; I know i'm somewhat timid on that road and never will push my limits there. sometimes if i ride it several times, it seems to get easier, more relaxed and do better. Yea; I got passed up be a 84 Honda Sabre yesterday.😔 i'll have to improve my skills; something to think about.  I still may want a different 2nd smaller/lighter bike anyways. I'm still on fence between an K-tech (201DS fork cart./razor R shock) or Stoltec's (GP cart forks/penske 8983 shock); $620 diff. GP forks and Penske shock being higher. 

Thanks for reply...

Edited March 12, 2022 by howie333

[Sunde]

1 hour ago, howie333 said:

I probably will do a suspension upgrade, and may also be picking up a 2nd bike just for specific type riding sa. the Aprilia RS 660; and I know even that bike will need a few upgrades.

tnx....

 

RS660 wont be faster than the Tracer on a twisty road, at least only marginally.
 To me it sounds like the hardware on top needs adjusting less so than the bike.
I'v only done 1000km's on my T9 so far, but i have 0 worries about going to a trackday or out to a twisty road with sportsbikes, this thing rocks. 

[duckie]

One more thing…….doing track days on your street ride is the only way to learn to really go fast…..I mean fast.

On the track, you will learn so much about yourself and your motorcycle that you never can on the street….safely.

I thought I was a fast street rider until I started racing and doing track days. 

On the track, you are able to forget all about the hazards found on the street which allows you to focus more on just learning what you and your motorcycle can do. I have been passed like I was standing still by a rider on a 250 ninja. Now thats humbling. 

It is far easier and safer to follow a fast rider in the track. Following faster riders is where you learn to really go fast. 

Think you are good on the brakes, the track will show that you are not.

Get on the track. 

[duckie]

If ya want to see what can be done with a properly setup motorcycle being ridden by skilled riders, watch the King of the Baggers race at Daytona.

[PhotoAl]

Very good points @duckie I like to think of fast on the street more as quick as running race pace on the street is nuts, an oops and well that's not good.  Always fun to watch WERA races and see the vast differences in skills.  Watch the novice riders going into a turn after a long straight. Have seen many bike close rapidly under braking but be timid or lacking in corner speed.   For my street riding I like corner speed within reason but the speed hit between corners is not that important to me.  For me it's the enjoyment of riding at a quick pace and enjoying the ride.

Had a CBR600RR and a ZX6R 636 and yes they had better suspension setups and I could ride them a bit faster more comfortable than the Tracer 900 GT but not a huge difference.  If I was just going to rip thru the twistiest the ZX6R would be my pick.  But if I want to see Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, Wyoming on the way then it wouldn't be the bike for me.  Much stiffer suspension and not relaxed at all.  Yes it would run all day long easily, much more easily than I could haha.  After 600 miles in a day I was done riding for a long time - at least 2 days!  Tracer is softer more upright much softer seat and will eat the miles.  But it is close enough and works well enough for me. I love it for being a great in-between point between full on sport bike (light) and a heavy touring machine.  I love how a lighter bike makes quick turn ins and transitions side to side quickly.

Still thinking a new rear shock and spring as I'm a bit undersprung particularly when loaded for a long trip.

[howie333]

1 hour ago, KellyL said:

Worth mentioning that sport tourers as a genre emerged during the late 80s and early 90s from people literally modifying sportbikes to go touring on. VF/VFR750 and GPZ1100 etc were originally marketed as hardcore sportbikes.

With that in mind the MT09/Tracer platform is quite sporty when you look at the fundamental geometry and weight specs. Rake/trail is actually the same as a 1996 GSX-R750 SRAD, and only 10kg more wet weight.

So IMHO the answer is 'yes' you can get "true" sportbike handling, but analogous to one that is 1-2 decades older. But if you meant a contemporary sportbike such as a 2020 R6, then the answer is 'no' because there have been so many advances made since then (weight reduction, BPF forks, brakes, tuned flex in frame, unsprung weight, etc).

P.S.: and to clarify from your quote "high speed precise cornering", that means different things on street vs track. Which were you referring to?

(Spending money on stickier tyres instead of suspension + old worn tyres probably offers more value... @howie333 going back to your original suspension post, maybe a fork oil change + some decent Diablo Rossos is all you need; things have escalated somewhat since then )

P.P.S: the RS660 isn't a top-shelf sportbike either, as opposed to an R6 or ZX6R - it's been built down to a price and still runs a basic emulsion shock + old school 1990s KYB cartridge forks. It's more like an SV650S after a nip and tuck.

 The aprilia's performance parrellel twin has great looks, sound and vibes and ergo's w/ character that make it a really fun bike to blast around back roads and such that most in line 4 sport bikes dont have.  I'd have to put some money into the suspension though, and maybe a pipe, but still a fun 2nd ride. Considered Ducati but maintenance and cost and the heat on legs is a deal breaker.

[howie333]

23 hours ago, KellyL said:

Worth mentioning that sport tourers as a genre emerged during the late 80s and early 90s from people literally modifying sportbikes to go touring on. VF/VFR750 and GPZ1100 etc were originally marketed as hardcore sportbikes.

With that in mind the MT09/Tracer platform is quite sporty when you look at the fundamental geometry and weight specs. Rake/trail is actually the same as a 1996 GSX-R750 SRAD, and only 10kg more wet weight.

So IMHO the answer is 'yes' you can get "true" sportbike handling, but analogous to one that is 1-2 decades older. But if you meant a contemporary sportbike such as a 2020 R6, then the answer is 'no' because there have been so many advances made since then (weight reduction, BPF forks, brakes, tuned flex in frame, unsprung weight, etc).

P.S.: and to clarify from your quote "high speed precise cornering", that means different things on street vs track. Which were you referring to?

(Spending money on stickier tyres instead of suspension + old worn tyres probably offers more value... @howie333 going back to your original suspension post, maybe a fork oil change + some decent Diablo Rossos is all you need; things have escalated somewhat since then )

P.P.S: the RS660 isn't a top-shelf sportbike either, as opposed to an R6 or ZX6R - it's been built down to a price and still runs a basic emulsion shock + old school 1990s KYB cartridge forks. It's more like an SV650S after a nip and tuck.

Rode a Honda CBR1000, in line 4 whine, sat on several supersports(zx's and gsx's), similar engine tuning and clip-ons. 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by howie333

[howie333]

 Is compression damping being adjustable somewhat important ? That's what would  justify for me the fork cartridge and shock upgrades.  

[duckie]

If you want to be able to fine tune the ride and handling, yes.

Compression damping helps control the rate a force is put into a spring thereby helping control what you feel in the bars or seat of your pants. In addition, adjusting low speed dampening controls when the high speed circuit is used.

It helps controls the speed of fork dive when braking.

It helps controls rear end squat coming out of corners helping prevent running wide under hard acceleration out of turns.

I use how well a bump is handled when lean over in a turn to help set up suspension. Having adjustable compression helps with this.

Id go for fully adjustable suspension. 
 

 

[howie333]

6 hours ago, duckie said:

If you want to be able to fine tune the ride and handling, yes.

Compression damping helps control the rate a force is put into a spring thereby helping control what you feel in the bars or seat of your pants. In addition, adjusting low speed dampening controls when the high speed circuit is used.

It helps controls the speed of fork dive when braking.

It helps controls rear end squat coming out of corners helping prevent running wide under hard acceleration out of turns.

I use how well a bump is handled when lean over in a turn to help set up suspension. Having adjustable compression helps with this.

Id go for fully adjustable suspension. 
 

 

Thanks for reply;

I just have to decide betweeen K-Tech, Stoltec's(GP fork and Penske shock), or Andreani forks and Nitron shock. i'm sure it's a good valve kit and shock, but For the price of Stoltec's fork piston kit upgrade and penske 8983 shock, I could use the K-tech's Razor R shock w/ compression dampning/nitrogencanister and the 201DS fork cartridges for only $160 more !  not sure the diff. between the 2 of these choices.

TNX... 

  

Edited March 14, 2022 by howie333

[howie333]

9 hours ago, howie333 said:

Thanks for reply;

I just have to decide betweeen K-Tech, Stoltec's(GP fork and Penske shock), or Andreani forks and Nitron shock. i'm sure it's a good valve kit and shock, but For the price of Stoltec's fork piston kit upgrade and penske 8983 shock, I could use the K-tech's Razor R shock w/ compression dampning/nitrogencanister and the 201DS fork cartridges for only $160 more !  not sure the diff. between the 2 of these choices.

TNX... 

  

Well;I decided on the Andriani 105/Y07E fork cartridges adjustable preload rebound and compression and the Nitron NTR2 shock w/ compession cartridge set up for my riding style and weight.   subtotal Just under $1600.  

[skipperT]

Great choice, Howie. I’m sure you’re excited! Keep us posted on how it goes. 
 

-Skip

[howie333]

1 hour ago, skipperT said:

Great choice, Howie. I’m sure you’re excited! Keep us posted on how it goes. 
 

-Skip

No , actually, my wife is excited I FINALLY made a choice ! I'm just relieved...😐