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Saw a new video from FortNine: Tank Slappers and the Quest for Perfect Suspension where he gave an interesting overview on suspension technology and whether there was such a thing as the perfect suspension setup. Upon reviewing, I realized that I have only adjusted my Niken suspension settings one time and haven't refined it since since I didn't know/understand the principles involved in dialing in my suspension settings.

I then did a search for how to set up motorcycle suspension and stumbled across a few videos that illustrated high level principles as well as how to adjust rebound damping

I have the instructions on my owners manual that tell me how to physically adjust compression and rebound for front and rear but am looking for additional tips on how to dial in the suspension settings on the Niken GT for me please. 

 

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2019 Niken GT
"Motorcycles - the brand is not important, the fact that you ride is."

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  • 2 weeks later...
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I think the video from 2 wheel obsession is one of the better ones to get a basic idea of setup...

How To Setup Motorcycle Suspension Sag Rebound Compression Damping

 

I just picked up a lowering kit from Hyperpro and wonder if it is a DIY project? Is it just open and replace or is there more to it, I haven't done the research yet.

Niken 20mm Lowering Kit

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The front of the niken behaves differently to a conventional 2wheeler imho and with its 50/50 weight distribution making quite a difference in loading front to rear.I think the front behaves more like a telelever BMW front end .The in my case works well  but with spring ware and oil thinning the operation does change even though you've not adjusted your settings ,that's why it's good to revisit them .Tyre choice and pressures also play a part in how suspension behaves .On the rear especially I'd using a stiffer gt carcass tyre I've found im using virtually no preload and softened the compression a little ,now with my new rear tyre with a different construction and flex I've had to put a little back in .Regarding rebound in the front ,too much and you can get it slipping and skipping mid turn .Static sagg  used to be 25 to 30 mm as a guide but on my niken I could only get 1/2 that and I believe this is why a few complain of a harsh rear end .When I was experimenting with set up I softened the rear to the point it would squat under load ,it was very plush but did make the front slower steering at that point .It's all a compromise but for out of the box suspension set up I would say the niken is the best on any bike I've owned especially when having pillions etc .

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  • 2 months later...
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First I will agree Ferrett847 that the Niken suspension was perfect from Yamaha. The bike just hugged the road in every condition, most have described it as planted.

My problem is my 29" inseam and not been able to flat foot and barely able to get on the balls of my feet. The stock seat is vey wide due to the width of the bike up front.

I installed the Yamaha lowering link in the back and that hardly made a difference. Next I purchased the HyperPro lowering kit which consisted of replacement front and rear springs with fluid etc and had the dealer install them. I picked the bike up a couple of weeks ago and rode the 10 miles home on the highway and was thrilled to be able to get the balls of my feet down, it felt so much safer and I felt more comfortable to be riding the Niken. I went out of town for 10 days and got to ride her today on back roads for the first time. It was horrible, what a huge mistake. I came home and checked the suspension settings and every thing was set to harsh, all screws were almost all the way in. So I moved everything to center and went out again... Wow huge improvement. I still have some adjustments to make, an honestly I don't know what I am doing. I plan to write down all the adjustments by number of clicks in/out and keep going till I find the sweet spot. I have searched high and low for online setup tips for the Niken but found none, so any advice appreciated.

HyperPro Kit

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  • 7 months later...
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Last year I had asked a local shop instal the Hyperpro Lowering Kit to my Niken and set it for my 210lbs riding weight. The lowering kit came with Hyperpro Springs and 10 weight fork oil. They shop changed out the springs and returned the oil unopened. For riding it was an improvement as I could now flat foot, but the suspension was worse and I found the fork settings were screwed all the way in. Recently I had another guy help me set the front and rear suspension, but his conclusion is that the front forks needs the oil changed. 

On the Niken the front forks have oil inside and the rear forks have the springs. The service manual lists Yamaha 01 fork oil, which I believe is 5 weight. My next step is to change the fork oil but I'm wondering if I should go with the 10 weight HyperPro oil or a different viscosity.

When I ride over potholes the bike handles well but if I ride over a bump in the road, the bump can be harsh. It seems to feel better when it is colder outside.

What is adding to my confusion is when I called another shop to see if they might be able to help, the service advisor said the bigger the number on the fork oil bottle, the lighter the oil viscosity will be. 

I need advice.

2002273274_HyperProSettings.thumb.jpg.f3733a8265bdfdd70592bea3a17c124b.jpg 

8h5q-bf21fc9af8bb1de8204d21f6d60d271b851f41a9.jpg

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2 hours ago, Heli ATP said:

Last year I had asked a local shop instal the Hyperpro Lowering Kit to my Niken and set it for my 210lbs riding weight. The lowering kit came with Hyperpro Springs and 10 weight fork oil. They shop changed out the springs and returned the oil unopened. For riding it was an improvement as I could now flat foot, but the suspension was worse and I found the fork settings were screwed all the way in. Recently I had another guy help me set the front and rear suspension, but his conclusion is that the front forks needs the oil changed. 

On the Niken the front forks have oil inside and the rear forks have the springs. The service manual lists Yamaha 01 fork oil, which I believe is 5 weight. My next step is to change the fork oil but I'm wondering if I should go with the 10 weight HyperPro oil or a different viscosity.

When I ride over potholes the bike handles well but if I ride over a bump in the road, the bump can be harsh. It seems to feel better when it is colder outside.

What is adding to my confusion is when I called another shop to see if they might be able to help, the service advisor said the bigger the number on the fork oil bottle, the lighter the oil viscosity will be. 

I need advice.

2002273274_HyperProSettings.thumb.jpg.f3733a8265bdfdd70592bea3a17c124b.jpg 

8h5q-bf21fc9af8bb1de8204d21f6d60d271b851f41a9.jpg

Start off by figuring out how many clicks of rebound damping you have front and rear.  Turning the adjuster clockwise closes the damping orifice and counter-clockwise opens the orifice.   

If for example you have 10 clicks between fully open to fully closed then 5 clicks from fully closed is your mid-point, start there and see how it feels.  If its too "bouncy" or feels "wallowy" then ADD rebound damping - clockwise.  If you are turned all the way clockwise and it still feels loose or bouncy you can try a higher viscosity oil and start over at your mid point.  Higher viscosity oil will make your damping respond slower.

Does the Niken have compression damping adjustment?  if so then do the same as with the rebound, turn the clicker from fully closed to fully open and determine how many clicks of adjustment you have to work with and start at the mid-point as a reference and fine tune from there.

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***2015 Candy Red FJ-09***

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8 minutes ago, betoney said:

Does the Niken have compression damping adjustment? 

Higher viscosity oil will make your damping respond slower.

 Thanks for the response. I guess I need to read up on general suspension to get a better understanding, but you have made it pretty easy to understand. The Niken front suspension is adjustable compression and rebound damping. I have tried many different settings but can't seem to get it right. It was close to perfect out of the box before adding the lowering kit. Perfect compared to my FJ-09 with stock suspension, since thats the only other experience I can compare to.

So its the 'higher viscosity oil will make the damping respond slower' part that is giving me pause. Going over a pothole the bike feels smooth but when I hit a bump it doesent give enough and it feels like it is hitting hard. That makes me think if I add the 10 weight that came with the lowering kit it might be slower to respond over bumps?

I expected the shop to change the fork oil when doing the springs but can't get a reason for why they didn't.

I guess I just need to change the oil and go from there, since that is what the HyperPro recommended with the package.

Thanks again Betoney.

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24 minutes ago, Heli ATP said:

 So its the 'higher viscosity oil will make the damping respond slower' part that is giving me pause. Going over a pothole the bike feels smooth but when I hit a bump it doesent give enough and it feels like it is hitting hard. That makes me think if I add the 10 weight that came with the lowering kit it might be slower to respond over bumps?

Thats the beauty of adjustable suspension, unless your damping is completely messed up or your clickers are maxed out with a high or low viscosity oil, you "should" be able to adjust your clickers to fine tune for general riding.

Do you happen to have any motorcycle suspension shops within a few hours of your location? or a track that hosts track days?  The track days will usually have a suspension tuner available that can give you a baseline adjustment for about $50. 

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***2015 Candy Red FJ-09***

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On 3/1/2023 at 9:08 AM, Heli ATP said:

Last year I had asked a local shop instal the Hyperpro Lowering Kit to my Niken and set it for my 210lbs riding weight. The lowering kit came with Hyperpro Springs and 10 weight fork oil. They shop changed out the springs and returned the oil unopened. For riding it was an improvement as I could now flat foot, but the suspension was worse and I found the fork settings were screwed all the way in. Recently I had another guy help me set the front and rear suspension, but his conclusion is that the front forks needs the oil changed. 

On the Niken the front forks have oil inside and the rear forks have the springs. The service manual lists Yamaha 01 fork oil, which I believe is 5 weight. My next step is to change the fork oil but I'm wondering if I should go with the 10 weight HyperPro oil or a different viscosity.

When I ride over potholes the bike handles well but if I ride over a bump in the road, the bump can be harsh. It seems to feel better when it is colder outside.

The lowering kit has reduced the amount of travel in the forks. If they just changed the spring and you're running the factory oil, the harshness may actually be the fork bottoming out and hitting its stops because there's insufficient compression damping. For a square bump, less travel needs more compression damping. The shop might have tried to compensate by dialling up the compression damping clicker, which is a somewhat misguided band-aid solution as the clicker doesn't actually do anything to high speed compression (which is tuned according to the shim stack).

So yes one solution is to increase high-speed compression damping. This could be why it feels better cold. The flipside is that whilst square bumps will be handled better, small bump compliance will be worse if you just pour in thicker fork oil. This is the tradeoff for lowering the suspension. You will also change the rebound damping dynamics, given the valves are designed for a set spring rate and oil viscosity flow curve. Clicker fudging might mitigate this, but there is also a shim stack in the rebound circuit that needs attention.

Long story short, if you lower the suspension by just using a spring/stopper kit you simply have less travel to play with. Better solutions are either raising the forks up the clamps (not an option on Niken without removing the covers) or a full revalve with an internal fork kit. This is a rabbit hole and you can easily end up chasing your tail. I haven't even started discussing the rear end and what lowering links do to the geometry. A good tuner is required.

Edited by someguy
Grammar
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Crash course in motorcycle damping

Velocity-Force curves visualise the damping characteristics of automotive dampers. Low velocity (AKA 'low speed') represents dynamic vehicle roll-yaw-pitch motion, whilst high velocity (AKA 'high speed') represents hitting a large pothole or landing from a jump.

Cartridge forks offer digressive damping. Progressive is undesirable because it give you worst of both worlds - wallowing with handling, but harshness with big bumps. This is what old school damper rods offer (e.g. Royal Enfield, SV650, MT07 etc).

3-14-500.jpg.30fbf9b9d69deed9d4b5289320085493.jpg

There are 3 stages to a cartridge damper. 1st stage is low velocity, and this is where the clickers operate (it's just a pointy screw over an orifice). 2nd stage is high velocity, and handled by the shim stack. Stage 3 is basically crash landing, and the oil begins to hydrolock even with the shim stack fully open.

modern-damping.jpg.3cf20b8e7ff0a09bac95956683660f09.jpg

Twiddling the compression damping clickers just changes the shape of the Stage 1 curve. Stage 2 can only be tuned by the shim stack. Stage 3 is tuned by the port size that's covered by the shim stack (the 'valve').

modern-damping-oil.gif.373241acc2c913d7eec9a60bf4de60e3.gif

Twiddling the clickers will not change the gradient of the Stage 2 line. Only changing oil viscosity will do that.

Sources:

https://racetech.com/page/title/Emulators-How They Work

https://www.peterverdone.com/archive/damping.htm

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Had the fork oil changed with the oil provided from HyperPro. What a huge difference the 10 weight oil makes. A lot of the bumbs that were noticable with the stock Yamaha oil after adding the lowering kit, were almost unnoticable on my ride last night. I have still to play with the settings, and while it is not as smooth as it was from Yamaha it is pretty close. This set up gives me more confidence, with now been able to get both feet on the ground. I higly recommend the Hyerpro Kit for other vertically challenged riders considering it.

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On 3/4/2023 at 7:31 PM, someguy said:

Crash course in motorcycle damping

Velocity-Force curves visualise the damping characteristics of automotive dampers. Low velocity (AKA 'low speed') represents dynamic vehicle roll-yaw-pitch motion, whilst high velocity (AKA 'high speed') represents hitting a large pothole or landing from a jump.

Cartridge forks offer digressive damping. Progressive is undesirable because it give you worst of both worlds - wallowing with handling, but harshness with big bumps. This is what old school damper rods offer (e.g. Royal Enfield, SV650, MT07 etc).

3-14-500.jpg.30fbf9b9d69deed9d4b5289320085493.jpg

There are 3 stages to a cartridge damper. 1st stage is low velocity, and this is where the clickers operate (it's just a pointy screw over an orifice). 2nd stage is high velocity, and handled by the shim stack. Stage 3 is basically crash landing, and the oil begins to hydrolock even with the shim stack fully open.

modern-damping.jpg.3cf20b8e7ff0a09bac95956683660f09.jpg

Twiddling the compression damping clickers just changes the shape of the Stage 1 curve. Stage 2 can only be tuned by the shim stack. Stage 3 is tuned by the port size that's covered by the shim stack (the 'valve').

modern-damping-oil.gif.373241acc2c913d7eec9a60bf4de60e3.gif

Twiddling the clickers will not change the gradient of the Stage 2 line. Only changing oil viscosity will do that.

Sources:

https://racetech.com/page/title/Emulators-How They Work

https://www.peterverdone.com/archive/damping.htm

Very helpful synopsis of all the variables that can affect motorcycle suspension tuning. These are the basic principles at play, which calls to my mind an analogy to cooking. The variables illustrated here are the cooking ingredients, but where the magic occurs is the recipe/dialing in of the suspension variables for a given track / riding use case. This is why race teams use test laps to make suspension adjustments to optimize the various variables. 

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2019 Niken GT
"Motorcycles - the brand is not important, the fact that you ride is."

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2 hours ago, Heli ATP said:

Had the fork oil changed with the oil provided from HyperPro. What a huge difference the 10 weight oil makes. A lot of the bumbs that were noticable with the stock Yamaha oil after adding the lowering kit, were almost unnoticable on my ride last night. I have still to play with the settings, and while it is not as smooth as it was from Yamaha it is pretty close. This set up gives me more confidence, with now been able to get both feet on the ground. I higly recommend the Hyerpro Kit for other vertically challenged riders considering it.

Improved suspension is a beautiful thing!  😎

I am not familiar with the adjustment options on the Niken, does it have adjustable compression and rebound?  Is it one adjustment per side like compression on left and rebound on right?  With 4 fork legs it has to be much more complex to set up than a conventional bike, does it have 4 springs?  

Years ago on my older FZ1 I started off my suspension improvement journey with Hyperpro springs and they were a definite improvement, the front end brake dive was almost gone completely.

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***2015 Candy Red FJ-09***

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39 minutes ago, betoney said:

 

I am not familiar with the adjustment options on the Niken, does it have adjustable compression and rebound?  Is it one adjustment per side like compression on left and rebound on right?  With 4 fork legs it has to be much more complex to set up than a conventional bike, does it have 4 springs?  

 

The rear shock absorber assembly is equipped with a spring preload adjusting knob and a rebound damping force adjusting screw. The forks have springs in the rear and oil in the front on each side. Each side of the front fork is equipped with a rebound damping force adjusting screw and a compression damping force adjustment screw. See pics in the first post of this thread.

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