Sick of Yamaha

[jthayer09]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Goat said:

I will agree that the Yamaha quickshifter is significantly better than the BMW's on the R bikes in the lower gears (shifts 1-2-3). Everything else I tend to disagree with, including the brakes. The R/RS's brakes are better than the Yamaha's by the same amount that the Yamaha's QS is better than the BMW's.

I own/run a forum on the watercooled boxer in the R1200/R1250 R/RS, and am moderator on a larger German-based RS forum, and the issues you mention do not apply. For one, as far as I am aware the tanks are plastic and the ring area has zero rust problems. I also am part of a largish RS Owners group who meet annually and who have bought both the R1200 and then the R1250 RSs. Non one has reported any rusting issues anywhere. I suspect you may be mixing/matching years of R/RS bikes. Based on my 2 minute Google check, the ones with the rust on the "abdeckring" are pre 2014 and the R1200 R/RS waterboxers started in 2015/2016 depending on the market. The 1250 engine only showed up in the 2019 model year. When it came to rust, common complaints on some bikes are the centre stand which gets lots of debris damage from the road, and in the UK people note superficial rust on pannier racks ... in some cases. None of these are widely reported.

The BMW service interval is 6000 miles while that for my Yamaha is 4000 miles so I am confused about this shorter service interval you mention. Never heard of anyone having issues with alternator belts either.

I don't mean to come on a Yamaha model forum and extoll the virtues of the BMW but just thought I needed to correct certain generalizations based on personal experience as an owner of both bikes. The R/RS are not perfect, just like any other bike, and there are some things that I like on the Tracer better, but the issues you raised are not the issues which one should look at if in the market for a present model R/RS.

You are correct: I looked at my deposit correspondence and it was a 2020 MY not a 2018; I rode a lot of bikes that week, mixed em up 🤪

However, while I don't have the manual as I didn't buy the bike I do remember there were shorter service intervals for the valves specifically, it sticks out because I remember it being notably shorter than the Yammaha 24K and thinking to myself "really?".

Also oil interval is also 6000mi for Yamaha as well as most other things:

I do agree with the BMW's brakes being better, I did disclaim that I can't quantify how much better they are as I didn't actually measure anything. They bite harder initially than the tracer and the rear brake noticeably contributes more to the stopping power, but I can't actually say it stops in a shorter distance vs just progressively squeezing harder on the Tracer 9 as I didn't get out and measure it; don't want to mislead anyone in the market to buy.

Nothing is wrong with having an alternator belt, it's just one more moving part that needs to be serviced and potentially replaced over long-term ownership vs a stator. Again something to consider when purchasing.

If they fixed any issue with the gas tank rust then great! The abdeck ring was what, a few dollars? Ridiculous the previous bikes didn't come with it.

[Grumpy Goat]

3 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

GG Thanks for your response. 

 I've admired Beamers since before I started riding

 I remember them as very refined And  Finey finished gentlemans express Twins

 They were actually too rich for my blood

I don't disagree at all, and that is one of the reasons I have a Yamaha as a sort of counterpoint, and to clarify I am not (as the thread title said) not sick of Yamaha. That said, when it comes to a bike that will go all over the world *and* have high mileage and seem to last forever, few can dispute that BMW is at the top of the list. Problem with BMWs is they have their people and they tend to be older and more well off (just go to a Rally and see how many grey heads you see!) and that helps to drive up prices ... not only of the bikes but also the accessories.

I also don't have the shekels to spare like the typical owner but, surprisingly to me, there are intangibles that make one stick with the marque (even if it means rolling all bikes into one) and that includes heritage and tradition, and - interestingly to me  lately - that sense of brotherhood in the national club here in NA. I an surprised to note that factor is influencing my likely decision to stay with BMW over other manufacturers.

[Grumpy Goat]

1 hour ago, OldBikers said:

Cost is an important part of consideration.

I just love the R1000XR but couldn't justify spending the extra $6,000 to $9,000 more than the T9GT.  Yes the T9 has a wonky menu wheel and no BT or Nav and the semi-auto suspension only has two positions and has manual preload but are those worth that much more.  165 HP is nice on the track but does one really need it to tour or commute?  When I toured the Pyrenees I could have rented the XR but opted for a 2019 Tracer 900 GT and saved a few hundred Euros.

A friend just bought an XR and by the time he added options it ran north of $24,000.

A lot of the customer satisfaction comes from the dealer not the manufacturer.  Our local BMW dealer may be the most expensive for service in the country. Another friend brought in his GS800 for a valve check and left there with a $2,200 bill,OUCH!.

For me it is value, no so much cost. Value is an improtant part of my consideration. I don't mid buying an expensive bike if it will last forever and if it ticks most of the boxes while doing it. Buying something that is expensive and always in the shop is BS and represents very poor value for me.

For me the first BMW I fell in love with (I thought) was the S1000XR (not R1000XR; huge difference 😄) and at the time I was in that state (2015) there was no Tracer here to compare to. But the deal breaker at that time was the tingling handlebar with high engine rpms when cruising, and the absurd curved seat. Sound familiar? - at least I didn't slide into the blasted tank!

And then I rode my boxer and the rest is history. Didn't even love my RS when I first got it (bought it on the rebound from the S1000XR), but that all changed after my first long distance road trip.

Comparing the S1000XR to the current T9, from a riding standpoint the value winner (and better bike, looks aside) is the T9. If the Tracer 900 GT had an autoblipper (let alone a 6-axis IMU), I would have no hesitation saying that is the better bike for the average rider. That said, the T9's dash and the seat are the reasons I would wait until a redesign, but by that time I will likely have made a different decision. Note I said "from a riding standpoint" ... ownership for me also includes working on the bike and my BMW is a better bike to work on than my Tracer, but that is a separate discussion.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Grumpy Goat

[2and3cylinders]

GG

S1000XR was the 1st beamer you fell for?!

How old are you?!

This was my first blue coolaid driven lust object

 

 

[micah2074]

Honestly, I can’t think of a bmw that’s ever done it for me.
I have lusted for a few  moto guzzi’s. 

[2and3cylinders]

I'd get this if I had the shekels in a heartbeat, that is if they ever make it over here.  No Guzzi dealers within 80 miles though...

 

Fastest Red!

[texscottyd]

31 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

…that is if they ever make it over here. 

What is that?  Damn it… another ‘Oh! I must have that!!’ model that isn’t available in the US

[KrustyKush]

In 1970 I re-upped and got $10k bonus.  I went to local Savannah GA Kawasaki-BMW dealer (Epps) intending to buy a Kaw Mach 3.  Mr Epps invited me to take a look at the white 71 BMW R60/5 he had sitting there.  He opened the hinged saddle and laid out the tool kit.  A hand air pump was included!  A few minutes of intimate fondling of the motorcycle was all it took to get me to part with $1550 cash.  I loved the bike, but was an oddball among my Army buds most of whom had CB750s or Bonnevilles.  Next year I went back to Vietnam, stored the bike in my parents business shop, which burned down a month later.  My poor mom having to write that letter to me... it was like a Dear John.

[Grumpy Goat]

2 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

GG

S1000XR was the 1st beamer you fell for?!

How old are you?!

This was my first blue coolaid driven lust object

That is a beautiful bike indeed. I was out of motorcycling for over 34 years - first went to university so too poor, then met my now wife who was not supportive (put it that way).  She agreed back in 2014 and I jumped on the opportunity. Got a nice Honda CBR500R ABS before upgrading to the RS. Before that motorcycles to me were Japanese and fast, but a dream. Went to a demo days ride at a dealership looking to try a GS and they had none and so I jumped on the S1000XR without knowing what it was and came back saying "holy sh*t ... wtf was that?!" then went home and looked it up. 😁

[psyshack]

Well this grey head has not ran up the prices on motorcycles. I've never paid anywhere near MSRP for bike. And I won't do it now china flue or what ever excuse the stealers want to use. My money is always worth more than there wares. I'm cooking a few stealers right now. I have pics of the vins and know how long they have had the bikes in stock. So if some fool wants to pay MSRP, plus shipping, setup fee's and stupid doc fee's so be it,,, Will Not Be Me... I paid $18k OTD plus TT&L for my Wing. And before that only $13k OTD For the POS 2017 M8 Roadking I had before the Wing. And lets be clear... BMW has never,,, I repeat has never made a motorcycle or car as reliable as a Honda anything. There known to break as much as Harleys and cost twice as much to fix. The only way I will buy a BMW is if the bike is discounted and a free BMW extended warranty is thrown in. Same with Spaghetti and Brit bikes.

 

[2and3cylinders]

I didn't flag when someone said beamers beamers are extremely extremely reliable Because now you get into a comparative pissing contest

 However I think the older BMW is probably more reliable than these new fangled wiz bangs because there was just less to go wrong

 The moto goozy V-100 mondelo is supposed to come to the United States and it has self-deploying downforce aerodynamic "wings".   It also takes a page from the BMW twin Handbook with carburation coming up in the top of the jug and exhaust out the bottom rather than back-to-front as was used for millennium.   Less chance of bruised shins and knees.

 Staying a-political and PC let's just say it's not difficult to understand the games that dealers must play in order to make a buck and the ways and means of saving yourself significant Dosh.

 I'm not sure for the foreseeable future if real deals like could be had will be available and the used market is also a crazy high.

[KrustyKush]

I wouldn't say the older Beemers were less problem prone.  I ended up having two R60/5, and both of them had multiple problems while I owned them.  They were mostly minor irritating problems.  Neither bike ever came close to leaving me stuck.  They were very crude, of course.  Breaker point ignitions, single plate dry clutch which was grabby as hell.  They leaked oil around the heads.  The final drive leaked.  The 71 blew a head gasket on one side for no apparent reason.  I fixed it one night while on CQ.  Easy to work on, for sure.  Both bikes had a very sweet feel at 70 mph.  They were bog slow getting there, but once there it was like riding a motorcycle equivalent of a Rolex.  Just a solid feel of quality that the Japanese bikes didn't have IMO.

[2and3cylinders]

That's funny!

The R60/5 I had the misfortune to wrench on repeatedly for a friend was also somewhat of a lemon.  Again, never stranded him but a squinched pooch none the same.  It had a OEM Vetter Windjammer frame mount fairing.  Green matching paint but parts became unobtainable.  He may still have it.  Need to ask next time we talk but it's been ages.

My 750 twins and the 750 brick I had were great if you rebuilt the heads with $tellite valve seats in the twin, and learned how to quickly change valve stem seals using compressed air to keep the valve from dropping in the triple.  The triple was a hoot, better than the brick 4.

I worked on some old R5 and my 61 had the Earls front end.  Brakes sucked though with the sidecar, and it could barely make it up low hills albeit with 120,000 and needing a ring job.

One of my buddies has a 14 RT and 15 SX and cannot sing their praises any higher, I zone out though because he got the SX to upstage my fastest red 15 FJ.  Same goes for another buddy about his VFR.  It's only an 800 FCOL!  Wankers both.  I'm the handsome one with the red beard (there's almost a full head of match hair under my chapeau).  Oldbikers with his liquid metal T9 is in the blue Yamaha hat and white beard...he carries on about his T9 incessantly too.

[Grumpy Goat]

5 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I'd get this if I had the shekels in a heartbeat, that is if they ever make it over here.  No Guzzi dealers within 80 miles though...

 

Fastest Red!

The V100 Mandello is indeed a work of art and I can’t wait to see it in person. Luckily there is a dealer about 20 - 25 miles from my house. 

[ZigMerid]

15 hours ago, micah2074 said:

Honestly, I can’t think of a bmw that’s ever done it for me

This does it for me. 1999-2000 K1200RS. Photo taken circa 2008.

Edited July 8, 2022 by ZigMerid