Cam Chain Tensioner

[2and3cylinders]

6 hours ago, KrustyKush said:

Yes.  At a little over 12k miles, while replacing the spark plugs, I decided to do a quick check of the valve clearances.  Turns out both exhaust valves on cylinder #3 are tight, out of spec.  All the other valves are fine.

I considered just buttoning it up and riding another 14k and checking them again at 26k, the normal interval for valves. But I'm way too anal for that.  I ordered a couple new shims, they are here, and I will get all the valves in shape.

So yes, the valve cover is off.  I'm about to button it all back up.  When I turn the crankshaft, I will be able to view the cam chain and the cams.

Aren't you keeping it loose while you adjust the valve lash?

I take out the tensioner shoe after using 2 zip ties per sprocket and shove a rag under the drive sprocket.

That's anal!

But I can actually hang the cam up out of the way.

You need shims bracketing what you measure with a micrometer of new and old.  I never trust the laser mark which is usually low by .002

Indexing is also easier with plenty of slack.

[KrustyKush]

The only thing I removed is the CCT.  Good idea on the tension shoe, though.  I like it.  Next time.

I only need to replace the two #3 exhaust shims.  The two valves aren't at exactly the same clearance, but so close that replacing the existing 185's with 180's will do the trick.  Should bring the two valves back from 0.25 to 0.30.  

All the other valves are fine.  The exhausts are right close to 0.30, and all the intakes are around 0.15

This is very similar to what I found years ago when I did my first 26k miles valve check on my 97 Yam Royal Star.  All the valves pretty much OK, but one stinking exhaust valve, on the end, at less than .0015" freaked me out!  I decided right then that would be the last time I let a new engine go 26k miles to the first inspection.

Of course, being anal, I do tend to over do some things.  I haven't yet used a mic to measure the shims, though. Now THAT is anal... ha ha

Thanks for all the help.  It sure is a good thing to compare experiences on these things.

[2and3cylinders]

It may be anal but recommended even with today's supposed high quality assurance I always find a variance

[KrustyKush]

I'm ready to re-install the cams, so this morning I grabbed the CCT, with which I am totally unfamiliar, and following the inadequate instructions in the Yamaha manual I spent a couple of hours figuring out how it works.  

There are two circular clips on the end of CCT body, one of which prevents the rod from coming all the way out, and the other for locking the rod in place prior to installation in the motor.  It took me quite awhile to wrap my geezer brain around these two clips!

I disassembled the thing.  There is a worm type gear inside with a long spring inside it.  This worm gear goes up into the ram, which has similar threads inside it for the worm.  The nature of this is that it will thread into the CCT body only if very light pressure is exerted on the ram end.  If any pressure other than VERY light is applied to the ram, it is locked and will not travel further into the CCT body.  It took me quite awhile, and a couple of sore hands, to figure this out.

So later today I will install cams and get this thing back on the road.

I'm tempted to scrap this auto tensioner and go to a manual, but I am not finding a product out there for the 21 GT.

[CheeseBall]

I realize that this thread is years old but I just have to thank KrustyKush!  I've been messing with this infernal cam chain tensioner for my 21' T9GT for hours.  No youtube videos.  No threads about this.  Service manual is hot garbage for this step.

VERY LIGHT consistent pressure while spinning the ram will eventually allow the ram to slide into the body.  Absolutely maddening...  I've been looking at setting this bike on fire.  I was looking at my local (GASP) Harley dealer (hydraulic lifters) to trade this thing in. 

I was strongly considering sobbing uncontrollably.  

So thanks KrustyKush for taking the time to make this post! 🍻

[KrustyKush]

You're welcome!

Yep, same as you, I struggled and sweated greatly over that tensioner.  After I finally got it back together,  I made up my mind to replace the tensioner next time it had to come out.  I had had it apart so many times, and put so much unnecessary pressure on it as I tried, again and again, to get it assembled and set, I thought maybe I'd damaged it in some way.  But apparently not.  I put another many thousands of miles on the bike before I sold it a few months ago, and never had a problem with it at all.

[2and3cylinders]

You sold it?!

What'd you get?

I'm only at 63k miles but couldn't ride much last two seasons

[KrustyKush]

Yeah, I hated to see it go.  I had bought a 2022 Goldwing Tour a year and a half ago, mainly because my 79 year old wife started complaining that she couldn't ride the Tracer with me.  So I kept the Tracer for myself, and set up the Wing for 2-up riding.  It was a good arrangement for 18 months, and I piled another several thousand miles on the Tracer, as well as putting 18k miles on the Wing.  When the Tracer rode away, it had 22k miles on it and was running terrific.

The problem arose when rheumatoid arthritis acted up over a period of several months last year.  I would go a week at a time unable to pull the clutch lever on either bike.  The thought of a DCT (automatic) transmission arose.  After months of thinking on this, I finally decided to act.  I bought a 2023 DCT Wing two months ago, and traded the Tracer for it.  I still have the 2022 Manual Wing but it is up for sale and I've got a potential buyer.

I kept my parts box full of various stuff for the Tracer.  You never know when an opportunity will arise.

[2and3cylinders]

KK

I feel for you

I've had Problems with my left hand For quite A while

Consequently i've Been looking at another honda

Albeit a somewhat smaller and lighter

The NX750.

It's somewhat of a toad and it's suspension and brakes are on the light side but it still looks like a hoot

Problem is i've gotta get my f j put back together and see how I am

 And then there's the issue of having room for a sixth bike

 I too want to discard, so to speak, two bikes

 But that'll take a considerable amount of time for me to get them ready to sell

 It always could be worse

 Did you get the airbag? It's part of a package on thebwing

 Maybe it's the same this year if it's available.But I hear they're coming out with another new air bag.Maybe in 24 or next year

 I know the wing feels lighter once it's under way but I have a fear due to my condition, that being if it goes over there's no picking it up even with help. Ha ha ha.

Does SWMBO also like the 23?

 And I've read mixed things about the DCT on the Wing but many do love it accepting its quirkiness. 

and you?

[KrustyKush]

Well... I started out with a chip on my shoulder for the Wing.  Back in 2003 I bought a new Wing, my fourth, and it had problems.  After 25k miles I sold it, and went away from Honda altogether for about 20 years.  

When wife said she'd like to ride some more, I started looking at  big tourers, without going to Honda immediately.  After awhile, the search boiled down to which of the big tourers, Harley, BMW, Honda, was lighter on its feet, easier to get off the side stand with a load.  That bike turned out to be the Wing, by a good margin.  In 2018 Honda lightened the Wing a lot, and made it a tidier, more sport-touring type of chassis.  Getting it off the side stand is a breeze compared to everything else.  

As for the DCT transmission, because I still have the 2022 manual six speed in the garage, and need to keep it exercised while it waits for a buyer, I'm able to jump from one to the other.  The only difference between the bikes is the transmission.  I do like the DCT.  It's weird at first.  It took me a couple weeks to start understanding how it likes to ride.  The DCT operation is definitely different from the manual.  In the default Tour mode, it likes to get up to higher gears very quickly.  After taking off from a stop, it will shift up to 4th, even 5th, before you're really even going 45 mph.  It likes to stay in a high gear all the time.  The engine is a bottomless pit of torque, and doesn't mind being in 6th and 7th gears even at lower speeds.  This probably explains why the bike easily gets mid-40's mpg and can get upwards of 50 mpg if ridden easily.

But, I also love getting onto the 2022 manual trans Wing.  I love them both.  Wish I could keep both, but I'm not well heeled enough that I can tie up that much $ in a motorcycle.  Also, limited garage space.  While I've still got the 2022 manual Tour, I'm a-ridin' it most every day.

[skipperT]

FWIW, picking up a Wing that’s hit the ground is actually easier than a lot of other bikes because of how Honda designed it. They sort of “roll” upright once the correct force is given. 

And agree on all the DCT comments  I’ve ridden every iteration of Honda’s DCT and they keep getting better and better. Plus you can shift at any time by hitting a button - no need to be in manual mode. 

-Skip

[betoney]

3 hours ago, KrustyKush said:

I do like the DCT.  It's weird at first.  It took me a couple weeks to start understanding how it likes to ride.  The DCT operation is definitely different from the manual.  In the default Tour mode, it likes to get up to higher gears very quickly.  After taking off from a stop, it will shift up to 4th, even 5th, before you're really even going 45 mph.  It likes to stay in a high gear all the time.

I have the DCT transmission on my VFR1200X and that default mode is the one thing I really dislike about it.  I have read a lot of different forums for bikes with the DCT (Goldwing, Africa Twin, VFR1200X,NC700/750X etc) and a lot of riders find it frustrating and question WHY?  Why did Honda develop a mode that is so subdued that it gets to 6th gear ASAP -my 1200X will get to 6th by 35mph!  I tried it once or twice and didn't enjoy it at all.  Fortunately they offer manual mode with the finger paddles or Sport mode S1/S2/S3 which is much more akin to how I would realistically shift the bike even under moderate acceleration.

You are correct in that it takes a while to figure out how the bike likes to be ridden, a lot of people I have talked to think it is a twist and go like a scooter and you could do that but to ride it effectively takes some learning through trial and error.  For a more relaxing experience while touring or commuting in traffic it is hard to beat but I enjoy my manual FJ09 for exhilarating sporty riding.

[skipperT]

17 hours ago, betoney said:

  I have read a lot of different forums for bikes with the DCT (Goldwing, Africa Twin, VFR1200X,NC700/750X etc) and a lot of riders find it frustrating and question WHY? 

My guess? 

Fuel economy and emissions. All the automakers seem to be doing the same type of shift programming, based on the random sample of rental cars I’ve driven over the last several years. Get it into overdrive as fast as possible. Drives me bonkers. 

-Skip

Edited March 21 by skipperT

[betoney]

3 minutes ago, skipperT said:

My guess? 

Fuel economy and emissions. 

-Skip

Thanks, that was my thought as well.

Are you aware of any negative effects to engine or clutch from lugging the motor in top gear that low in the rev range?  When you grab a handful of throttle and there is a slight delay before it downshifts a few gears, there can be chugging and lurching.  Thankfully the other modes shift normally.

[2and3cylinders]

The little 750 can lift the front end because it's simple maybe dumb but because it's dumb you can play with it more

Anyone ridden the 750 or even the 700?