Who is responsible for your safety while riding?

[duckie]

Simple question. The reason for the question comes from reading comments about the some of the new safety features on new motorcycles and a thread title on another forum.

The thread title is “America failure to protect anyone not in a car”.  Its on BARF if you want the read the discussion. 

Is your riding safety up to the manufacturers and government or you?

The most important safety device is between your ears. Learning and developing the skills for safe riding is a lifetime endeavor. It just doesnt happen. Proper and continued assessment of the current riding situation and then making the necessary adjustments to your riding is vital to being safe.

The trend to rely on safety features is not good. Doing so provides a false sense of security. 
 

[1moreroad]

I agree that you are responsible for your own safety.

That said, there is a market for safety systems because humans - even experienced riders - make mistakes. Human error is inevitable, and having a nanny system as a backup is not a bad thing. I don't rely on safety systems, but I do appreciate my ABS for the 2 times in 40,000+ miles it kicked in when I misjudged a surface. 

This isn't an either/or decision - rely exclusively on electronic nannies or be a master rider that always rides within their skills with zero mistakes. 

The only way any of us can guarantee not making a mistake on a motorcycle is to not ride. 

[kilo3]

I think the question is wrong.

The question should be, who is liable when safety fails?

[betoney]

36 minutes ago, duckie said:

The trend to rely on safety features is not good. Doing so provides a false sense of security.

I tend to agree.  I read a lot of different motorcycle forums and you always read a statement something along the lines of "I will never own a bike without _____" (ABS, TC, IMU, lean angle safety nets etc) and I think what did millions of motorcyclists do over the past decades before this technology existed?  Riders learned effective braking skills, learned proper throttle and clutch usage while cornering and most importantly they learned what their bikes as well as their own capabilities and limitations were for any given weather condition or road surface. 

I was fortunate to have grown up riding offroad motorcycles before getting a street bike, most of my riding was enduro-type riding in deep woods in the mountains, almost always in wet and slippery conditions on 2-strokes.  Riding over wet clay covered rocks or crossing slippery fallen trees even in snow, you had to learn precise clutch, throttle and braking skills.  Riding up and down steep muddy switchbacks, there was no ABS or traction control or "rain mode" to control the bike for you. 

Modern safety features are welcome and nice to have but my FJ is the first bike I have owned with ABS, TC or throttle "modes", I dont consciously ride assuming that they will save me in any way, I ride as I did on my previous bikes that had no assistance, where I am 100% responsible for throttle, clutch and brake input control.

[Larz]

1 hour ago, kilo3 said:

I think the question is wrong.

The question should be, who is liable when safety fails?

It can only be the rider, period. Regardless of what goes wrong, who did what,etc, only you can do anything about it,eh. Rider aids are nice to have, but no replacement for acquired skills or situational awareness. Poorly designed motorcycles with inherent performance flaws are still ridable ( Kawasaki H2 750 comes to mind in that regard) by skilled motorcyclists; albeit, death machines for the unskilled.... 

[KrustyKush]

I remember bikes of the 1960s.  Those had terrible brakes, (or virtually NO brakes, especially in the wet).  Suspensions were ridiculously bad.  Tires... well, tires really sucked.  I could go on, but we all know that those old bikes were death traps.  Some of us survived, but not without scars.  I have a short collarbone on the right because of a crash on a Concours, and another on a CBR1100XX that would surely have not happened if the bikes had had ABS.

We eventually learned how not to crash, but it took years, and there were many crashes with injuries and damage that need not have happened.  

My 50 year old son is a new rider.  He bought himself a 2004 Sportster.  No ABS.  No traction control.  I fear for him during his learning phase, as he encounters all the various dangerous situations that aren't covered in the Basic Course.  He's already crashed once with a couple of painful leg injuries that took weeks to heal.  Now he's got a case of fear.  He's overcoming it, but how much better it would be if that older bike had the same electronic aids that were present in all cars in 2004.

[Larz]

1 hour ago, KrustyKush said:

I remember bikes of the 1960s.  Those had terrible brakes, (or virtually NO brakes, especially in the wet).  Suspensions were ridiculously bad.  Tires... well, tires really sucked.  I could go on, but we all know that those old bikes were death traps.  Some of us survived, but not without scars.  I have a short collarbone on the right because of a crash on a Concours, and another on a CBR1100XX that would surely have not happened if the bikes had had ABS.

We eventually learned how not to crash, but it took years, and there were many crashes with injuries and damage that need not have happened.  

My 50 year old son is a new rider.  He bought himself a 2004 Sportster.  No ABS.  No traction control.  I fear for him during his learning phase, as he encounters all the various dangerous situations that aren't covered in the Basic Course.  He's already crashed once with a couple of painful leg injuries that took weeks to heal.  Now he's got a case of fear.  He's overcoming it, but how much better it would be if that older bike had the same electronic aids that were present in all cars in 2004.

A Sporty ain't a good starter bike- top heavy, hard clutch with a lot of low end grunt, poor ergonomics in standard form....despite the MoCo pushing it as the starter/newbie machine for decades. Of course if you conquer it you have acquired some skill

Agree that ABS is probably the most important safety device for a newb motorcyclist: the automobile driver conditioned reflex to step on the brake in panic situations takes time to overcome, and never happens for "weekend warriors"

[nhchris]

Most accidents I read about are caused by rider error, not the failure (or absence) of some onboard safety system.  

Excess speed, lack of situational awareness and aggressive riding seem to play some role in most crashes.

If you get to the point of activating ABS, I'd suggest you missed some important visual input and got too close to the hazard.  Crap on the road, that left turner, the puller-outer from the right, the quick stopper all should  have  set off mental alarm bells before a handful of front brake was required.

I believe your awareness will save you more often than your machine's rider aids.

Thus I am 100% responsible for my own safety.

[knyte]

As an experienced crash test dummy, I can say that 100% of my crashes and injuries were all a result of mindset, or lack of.

Once being overconfident and complicit despite the temp that fall day.  Turned left without seeing the light film of humidity on the ashpahlt, a cold early morning, and the back tire slipped out as I throttled out of the turn.  Two broken metatarsals and a broken shift lever.  Rode it home.

Next I was dreaming and forgot that lack of momentum means you don't stay upright.  Off-road on a heavy bike, flopped over.  Fractured right ankle.  Sold the bike...classic newb mistake, that bike was wayyyy to heavy for me and my lack of experience.

Lastly and most recently I was again off-road and spied a friend at the end of the field.  Bought the bike two weeks earlier.  Hey I'll show off on my new dual sport.  Spiral tibial fracture.

Riding aids nor regulations would have helped at all.  Cooking the meat between my ears from raw to medium, being present in the moment, and calming the eff down would have.

Preparing for the unexpected and remaining attentive has saved me...someone backing out of a parking space (I had done several hours of cone practice the day prior), a lane changer who didn't see me (I could see his eyes and they didn't look in his side mirror), a deer jumping out in front of me on the highway.  All with proper mindset... Unlike the three examples earlier.

[PhotoAl]

As a racing photographer traction control has deprived me of some fabulous high side crash photos.  I say that in jest as traction control has really reduced the number of high side crashes - people still do it just much less ofter which is a good thing.  

I agree that the most important safety feature is what is between our ears but like to think of stuff such as ABS as a safety net.  I have had ABS on the last 3 bikes and have never had it activate in a big way just an occasional bump under hard braking which says I'm at the limit.   Believe it is extremely important to know how to control the bike without nannies.  Before ABS even experienced rider would occasionally lock up the brakes and crash.  I welcome the additional safeguard but only as an emergency backup and not a riding aid.

[Ride365]

I don't rely on anything or anyone but myself when riding/driving, and there is no debate/argument that smart phones have made anything and everything we do daily, to be much more self absorbed and situational awareness to be all but gone. I am not some curmudgeon, but I loathe society as a whole now so much, we are a complacent self entitled society, that when something truly bad were to occur.......it's gonna get really ugly and really fast.

[kilo3]

14 hours ago, PhotoAl said:

I agree that the most important safety feature is what is between our ears but like to think of stuff such as ABS as a safety net.  I have had ABS on the last 3 bikes and have never had it activate in a big way just an occasional bump under hard braking which says I'm at the limit.   Believe it is extremely important to know how to control the bike without nannies.  Before ABS even experienced rider would occasionally lock up the brakes and crash.  I welcome the additional safeguard but only as an emergency backup and not a riding aid.

So if ABS fails, is that your fault as a rider? You are now relying on ABS for your safety.

[Brian]

As someone coming from a '98 Bandit 1200 with nothing, it is nice to have the safety systems on modern bikes.

I have recently taken on, yet again, another girlfriend and she is smaller than the lady riding gear I currently have in my closet. So as I am buying her jacket/pants/boots, it has caused me to reflect on additionally how important personal protection is, especially for those hanging on behind you. 

I also took a look at my own gear and realized that the thin piece of back foam that came with my jacket was not enough so ordered a CE Level 2 back protector to insert instead. Also doubled up at elbows and shoulders with pads from old jackets.

Plus, while ordering some frame and fork sliders online, watched their video on how they work that was a customer YouTube of him dropping on a low side with a not-so-obvious cause. You never know.

Stay safe....and maybe do like I did.... take another look at your gear to make sure it will work for you "when" that surprise happens.

[peteinpa]

I ride like I'm invisible.  

What I see on Youtube all too often is riders forcing their right of way, car is in the wrong, but rider continues into area car will be instead of braking/evasive maneuvers.  You WILL lose.

Edited December 2, 2022 by peteinpa

[Larz]

2 hours ago, kilo3 said:

So if ABS fails, is that your fault as a rider? You are now relying on ABS for your safety.

if it fails and you crash: yes it is your fault; you didn't have to crash, did you? Did you become so complacent due to the ABS that you tromp on the brakes at the last moment instead of anticipating/detecting/evading/escaping?