2017 fj-09 turns over well ; but wont start unless fully charged

[howie333]

Bike won't start up. turns over continually fine and sounds like engine is about to start, but when start switch is released. nothing. Then  battery is reading @ 11.9 volts. When battery is charged, I meter @ 12.4 volts and will start right up and if I shut off and start up several times in a row; problem  of not starting will repeat. I get 14.8 volts when running . Battery replaced less than a year ago. Bike is kept inside and occasionally put on battery tender if bike is down for more than a couple of weeks.  

 

Anyone have this problem; and If so, please help

 

Thank You...

[skipperT]

15 minutes ago, howie333 said:

Bike won't start up. turns over continually fine and sounds like engine is about to start, but when start switch is released. nothing. Then  battery is reading @ 11.9 volts. When battery is charged, I meter @ 12.4 volts and will start right up and if I shut off and start up several times in a row; problem  of not starting will repeat. I get 14.8 volts when running . Battery replaced less than a year ago. Bike is kept inside and occasionally put on battery tender if bike is down for more than a couple of weeks.  

 

Anyone have this problem; and If so, please help

 

Thank You...

12.4 on a charged battery isn’t enough. what’s the measured voltage across the battery terminals after the key is switched on for 30 seconds (and fully charged and off batt tender) if less than 12.2-12.3 =NG.

Replace it again with a name brand battery, or return the one you purchased for a new one if it’s under warranty. 

-Skip

[howie333]

2 hours ago, skipperT said:

12.4 on a charged battery isn’t enough. what’s the measured voltage across the battery terminals after the key is switched on for 30 seconds (and fully charged and off batt tender) if less than 12.2-12.3 =NG.

Replace it again with a name brand battery, or return the one you purchased for a new one if it’s under warranty. 

-Skip

Please Name a Name brand battery. I'd thought most all motorcycle batteries are made in a universal warehouse and are mostly similar quality unless I go lithium$$.  OEM battery only lasted a little over 3 years in my 17 FJ-09, but an older Kawasaki Ninja 650r I had OEM lasted over 10 years !! This battery only made it as year ! Not good. I think it came from Battery Stuff and cost approx. $100. I'm calling them tomorrow.

 

[dazzler24]

Hi Howie.  You don't have anything connected directly to the battery that may be sapping power while it's sitting idle?

e.g. I once had directly connected a small device that provided USB outlets and displayed my battery voltage on a small display but it was draining my battery at a rate that brought the voltage under the start voltage if I hadn't used my bike for a while.  Such a small thing but was enough.

May not be an issue for you but thought I'd mention it JIK.

It of course could well be just a dud battery as the venerable skipperT has mentioned.

[johnmark101]

Yuasa makes a good battery. The model YTZ-10S should fit your bike.

Edited January 3, 2023 by johnmark101

[knyte]

I've had great luck with a 10S-BS AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) battery, which worked out to ~$100 CAD.  Lead-acid tends to self-discharge a bit faster in my experience.

 

[howie333]

6 hours ago, dazzler24 said:

Hi Howie.  You don't have anything connected directly to the battery that may be sapping power while it's sitting idle?

e.g. I once had directly connected a small device that provided USB outlets and displayed my battery voltage on a small display but it was draining my battery at a rate that brought the voltage under the start voltage if I hadn't used my bike for a while.  Such a small thing but was enough.

May not be an issue for you but thought I'd mention it JIK.

It of course could well be just a dud battery as the venerable skipperT has mentioned.

Thanks; I'll check if there's a load, but the engine turns over effortlessly, and sounds as if it will run, but not.  When charged for a half hour, turns over the same , but starts right up.

  

[howie333]

3 minutes ago, howie333 said:

Thanks; I'll check if there's a load, but the engine turns over effortlessly, and sounds as if it will run, but not.  When charged for a half hour, turns over the same , but starts right up. If there's more than enough voltage to spin the starter, shouldn't there be enough voltage to run the ignition ?

  

 

[kilo3]

5 minutes ago, howie333 said:

Thanks; I'll check if there's a load, but the engine turns over effortlessly, and sounds as if it will run, but not.  When charged for a half hour, turns over the same , but starts right up.

  

Sounds about right, these bikes, in fact most modern bikes, are quite picky about voltage.

[KrustyKush]

I've been running a Shorai LFX18L1 in my 2021 T9GT since September.  Bike is now almost a year old and has almost 15k miles on it.

Price is high: around $300.

Shorai is very light.  The oem Yuasa is heavy.  You save several pounds of center mass weight with the Lithium.

Lithium has a major advantage in that it holds a stonking 13.4 volts pretty much forever.  You would have no trouble starting your Tracer with over 13v going to the system.  The lithium holds its voltage high as it discharges, unlike the lead-acid which sags its voltage significantly, and pretty quick reaches a point where it will turn over the motor but not start the bike, as has been noted.

My Tracer places almost no parasitic draw on the battery, so it can sit for days and days without a tender, and still will start the bike strong.  I live in CA, and ride most every day, so my bikes don't sit for long.  I also have a Shorai lithium in my 2022 Goldwing.  The Wing has a high parasitic load, and likes to be ridden every day.  If I can't ride it for three or four days in this chilly weather I will run a charge on it to keep it up and balanced.

I also had a $300 lithium in my last Harley.  The lithium saved many pounds of dead weight, and started the Harley day in and day out turning that starter motor over like I never heard from a lead-acid.

I heartily recommend the lithium.  Pricey, yes, but several advantages over lead-acid.

[texscottyd]

4 hours ago, howie333 said:

…the engine turns over effortlessly, and sounds as if it will run, but not.  When charged for a half hour, turns over the same , but starts right up.

I don’t know if applies to our bikes, but apparently many vehicles don’t fire the ignition until multiple parameters are met during the starting cycle.   So a certain minimum rpm threshold on the starter, AND a minimum voltage to trigger the coils & ignition.  

My wife’s Lincoln MKX did exactly what you described, and replacing the apparently ‘good’ battery cleared it up.  Interestingly, I ran that same battery in my old analog F150 for another 2 years without issue.   

Modern electronics are amazing and mystifying… 😀

[howie333]

1 hour ago, texscottyd said:

I don’t know if applies to our bikes, but apparently many vehicles don’t fire the ignition until multiple parameters are met during the starting cycle.   So a certain minimum rpm threshold on the starter, AND a minimum voltage to trigger the coils & ignition.  

My wife’s Lincoln MKX did exactly what you described, and replacing the apparently ‘good’ battery cleared it up.  Interestingly, I ran that same battery in my old analog F150 for another 2 years without issue.   

Modern electronics are amazing and mystifying… 😀

Yea, my older 07 Ninja 650R was basic as such, battery lasted as long as it did (10 years). Also; there's a small continuous load on the FJ battery I noticed when I took the battery out. I'm not sure what it is, but probably the memory for the settings. anything aftermarket I installed is wired off a  switched line. What is that load? Also the battery tested defective.  Warrantee on battery  is outdated. Not Fair from a one year old battery ! I'll have to spend more $$ this time I guess. The battery I'm replacing is a SCORPION from  BATTERYSTUFF; if that made a difference.

[skipperT]

20 hours ago, howie333 said:

Please Name a Name brand battery. I'd thought most all motorcycle batteries are made in a universal warehouse and are mostly similar quality unless I go lithium$$.  OEM battery only lasted a little over 3 years in my 17 FJ-09, but an older Kawasaki Ninja 650r I had OEM lasted over 10 years !! This battery only made it as year ! Not good. I think it came from Battery Stuff and cost approx. $100. I'm calling them tomorrow.

 

@johnmark101 already steered you in the right direction. Your statement about all batteries being made in one place may be true for all those cheap aftermarket ones, but IMHO you get what you pay for with a Yuasa. However battery prices have gone up considerably so if you’re comparing a $350 stock battery to an equivalent Lithium and don’t mind spending the difference, go lithium as long as you don’t live in a Cold climate. Be aware that LiFePO4 chemistries or a Shorai require a special Li charger. 

my stock battery is waining but still doing fair considering it’s 7 years old. Keeping them charged when not in use is key. You won’t get more than 1-3 years out of anything if you don’t keep it on a tender. I keep my finger on the start button for a 1/2 second longer and it still fires up

do you know how to test for excessive draw (load, as you referred to it…)? It requires a VOM in the correct, fused position. If not, post back and I’ll walk you through it. 

ALL modern bikes have a brief “spark” when the battery is reconnected. It doesn’t mean they have excessive draw. The FI system and (sometimes) multiple ECM’s often draw a quick zap of higher current before settling into a minimal <1 A key off draw when the battery is initially connected. Pretty normal. 
-Skip

[howie333]

3 hours ago, skipperT said:

@johnmark101 already steered you in the right direction. Your statement about all batteries being made in one place may be true for all those cheap aftermarket ones, but IMHO you get what you pay for with a Yuasa. However battery prices have gone up considerably so if you’re comparing a $350 stock battery to an equivalent Lithium and don’t mind spending the difference, go lithium as long as you don’t live in a Cold climate. Be aware that LiFePO4 chemistries or a Shorai require a special Li charger. 

my stock battery is waining but still doing fair considering it’s 7 years old. Keeping them charged when not in use is key. You won’t get more than 1-3 years out of anything if you don’t keep it on a tender. I keep my finger on the start button for a 1/2 second longer and it still fires up

do you know how to test for excessive draw (load, as you referred to it…)? It requires a VOM in the correct, fused position. If not, post back and I’ll walk you through it. 

ALL modern bikes have a brief “spark” when the battery is reconnected. It doesn’t mean they have excessive draw. The FI system and (sometimes) multiple ECM’s often draw a quick zap of higher current before settling into a minimal <1 A key off draw when the battery is initially connected. Pretty normal. 
-Skip

 STG is the only distributor I found that I can purchase an authentic Yausa YTZ10s battery for $200. I'd guess @ that price, I'd be better to just buy a lithium of either a Shorai or the LifePO4. Would a Battery tender made for lithium batteries be sufficient  for charging them or must I buy they're specific charger, and I have a local Batteryplus store nearby; would they're own brand X2 lithium be of any good quality in comparison ?

Thanks For Replies..

[skipperT]

8 hours ago, howie333 said:

 STG is the only distributor I found that I can purchase an authentic Yausa YTZ10s battery for $200. I'd guess @ that price, I'd be better to just buy a lithium of either a Shorai or the LifePO4. Would a Battery tender made for lithium batteries be sufficient  for charging them or must I buy they're specific charger, and I have a local Batteryplus store nearby; would they're own brand X2 lithium be of any good quality in comparison ?

Thanks For Replies..

Shorai require their own charger. 
your local battery plus may require a special charger depending on the Li chemistry. Regardless you’ll need a new charger if you go Lithium. 
Ytz10s for $200 is a good price in my mind. Not to complicate matters, but you can also price a yt12 if you want a bigger battery. It’ll fit if you remove the foam.

-S