First real issue - Bike stopped suddenly mid ride!

[dazzler24]

9 hours ago, texscottyd said:

I’m surprised nobody has commented on this aspect of your situation.   While something like a fuel delivery or vapor lock hiccup sounds unlikely, this does add credibility to the idea that something electrical in your startup procedure might have been BARELY in contact:  Key, start/run switch, side stand safety switch, etc.   You automatic ‘what the hell was that’ checks before restarting would have been enough to clear up the issue and let you resume normal operation.   

If it’s running fine again, and no sign of a repeat issue, I think you’re best to just let it go… You may never know, and it likely will never happen again.   (But carry your cell phone, just in case… 😀)

Thanks Tex. Yes, I reviewed my on board video of the ride and can say the engine cut right at the precise time of hitting a bump in the road.  I had hit many bumps before that mind you but that one may have been enough if there was something barely in contact as you say.

These bikes are so reliable I guess I got a big surprise that it just cut cold on me.  Before I'd even come to a stop I was already thinking of the time of day, the heat (I was stopped out in the open - no shade) and how I was going to get the bike back home so wasn't thinking about diag codes at that point.

I'm tending to lean towards agreeing with you though to put it behind me and carry on riding.

[dazzler24]

12 hours ago, skipperT said:

I was going to suggest the ignition key scenerio as well, had that happen to me too. I personally only have the bike and maybe one other key on a single ring to prevent things like that from happening. 

I only encountered a bad link when searching for the Fault code list I posted years ago - could be because I’m on a mobile? Anyway try beginning here:

at least you’ll get in there and be familiar with checking for codes and have a clear history in case it happens again. Connect a battery charger while you’re in DIAG mode as it will drain it fairly quickly. 

HTH,

-Skip

-found this as well 

 

I appreciate you commenting on this as it has educated me just that bit more on the ins and outs of this bike 👍😁.

Firstly - I'm glad (sort of) that you've experienced the key thing too.  But to be clear, when you say "had that happen to me too", do you mean an engine cut-out or key not fully dropping into the on position?

And yes, I have a couple of things on my ignition key ring to try to minimise the problem but there are times (obviously) that if they fall into a particular position on insertion then I can get this difficulty in free turning of the keys and have to fiddle until it's right.  Might have to minimise further and get rid of the Yamaha bling tag!

Secondly - So, after absorbing this useful info, here is what I found: -

1.  DIAG CODE 60 revealed no history = good.

2.  DIAG CODE 62 revealed that I have had 9 'error' codes in history.

3.  DIAG CODE 61 revealed that those 9 errors were - 13, 15, 21, 22, 25, 41, 42, 59, 89.

I'm a bit surprised I don't see a 19 in there - isn't that the side-stand error?  I've forgotten to put up the side-stand on more than one occasion! Unless I'm not fully understanding how these errors are displayed.

Question - As this displays ALL of the errors since a last reset and the errors show sequentially in a 'circular' fashion, is it the first or the last error code that is the latest one experienced?

Some of those errors recorded could have been from a couple of jobs/mods that I have done over the years and may be red herrings as far as the problem experienced is concerned.  I've been doing my own servicing and have never reset DIAG 62.... until now as follows.

Then I've gone back into DIAG 62 and erased all of the history and then checked that it reverted back to '00'

Can I assume that if it happens again I should have a clean slate to now work with?

Thanks very much for the info @skipperT.  As always, full of useful info and advice.👍🍻

 

[dazzler24]

Just a quick addendum to my previous post - 

Thought I'd go through all of the checks (that I was able to do) in DIAG mode and am pleased to report that all of the parameters are withing spec so that gives me a little more peace of mind.

For those who might be interested enough to check your own bike and have a service manual the procedure starts on page 9-6 (in my manual at least) and is headed DIAGNOSTIC CODE: SENSOR OPERATION TABLE.

This is the first of several pages -

You'll have to be in DIAG mode before all of this of course.

Just remember to have your start/stop switch in the off/stop position to begin with then follow the bouncing ball in the table.

Also would pay to have a battery tender attached as per @skipperT's advice.

N.B. that this is for the 2015 model and is done all on the screen with no OBD required.

[skipperT]

23 hours ago, dazzler24 said:

Just a quick addendum to my previous post - 

Thought I'd go through all of the checks (that I was able to do) in DIAG mode and am pleased to report that all of the parameters are withing spec so that gives me a little more peace of mind.

For those who might be interested enough to check your own bike and have a service manual the procedure starts on page 9-6 (in my manual at least) and is headed DIAGNOSTIC CODE: SENSOR OPERATION TABLE.

This is the first of several pages -

You'll have to be in DIAG mode before all of this of course.

Just remember to have your start/stop switch in the off/stop position to begin with then follow the bouncing ball in the table.

Also would pay to have a battery tender attached as per @skipperT's advice.

N.B. that this is for the 2015 model and is done all on the screen with no OBD required.

… and it will work for 16’s as well. 17 onward need Yamaha Doagnostic tool. I don’t think you can run the output tests with an OBD Ii reader, but someone will correct me if I’m wrong. 
-Skip

[skipperT]

On 3/18/2023 at 9:15 PM, dazzler24 said:

I appreciate you commenting on this as it has educated me just that bit more on the ins and outs of this bike 👍😁.

Firstly - I'm glad (sort of) that you've experienced the key thing too.  But to be clear, when you say "had that happen to me too", do you mean an engine cut-out or key not fully dropping into the on position?

And yes, I have a couple of things on my ignition key ring to try to minimise the problem but there are times (obviously) that if they fall into a particular position on insertion then I can get this difficulty in free turning of the keys and have to fiddle until it's right.  Might have to minimise further and get rid of the Yamaha bling tag!

Secondly - So, after absorbing this useful info, here is what I found: -

1.  DIAG CODE 60 revealed no history = good.

2.  DIAG CODE 62 revealed that I have had 9 'error' codes in history.

3.  DIAG CODE 61 revealed that those 9 errors were - 13, 15, 21, 22, 25, 41, 42, 59, 89.

I'm a bit surprised I don't see a 19 in there - isn't that the side-stand error?  I've forgotten to put up the side-stand on more than one occasion! Unless I'm not fully understanding how these errors are displayed.

Question - As this displays ALL of the errors since a last reset and the errors show sequentially in a 'circular' fashion, is it the first or the last error code that is the latest one experienced?

Some of those errors recorded could have been from a couple of jobs/mods that I have done over the years and may be red herrings as far as the problem experienced is concerned.  I've been doing my own servicing and have never reset DIAG 62.... until now as follows.

Then I've gone back into DIAG 62 and erased all of the history and then checked that it reverted back to '00'

Can I assume that if it happens again I should have a clean slate to now work with?

Thanks very much for the info @skipperT.  As always, full of useful info and advice.👍🍻

 

Hey @dazzler24,

The codes numbers are displayed in numerical order. One of the disadvantages of the DIAG system, along with no failure data. 

I’ve had my bike shut off randomly too, is what I meant. Was running along just fine, and lost everything. Cycled the key, all good again. Assumed the key wasn’t all the way on. 

code 19 trips all the time in the YDT system, is pretty much a “red herring” code which can be ignored unless the bike presents with a problem. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in DIAG mode for (up to) 16 models (of any Yamaha). Usually the neutral safety relay fails, not the sidestand switch. 

And yes, now you’ll have a clean slate in case something trips down the road. honestly, I recommend everyone check and clear codes at every service, just in case. 

welcome to the hidden inner view of your (our) bikes. wait till you make the abs cycle, that one’s more fun.

-Skip

[dazzler24]

2 hours ago, skipperT said:

Hey @dazzler24,

The codes numbers are displayed in numerical order. One of the disadvantages of the DIAG system, along with no failure data. 

I’ve had my bike shut off randomly too, is what I meant. Was running along just fine, and lost everything. Cycled the key, all good again. Assumed the key wasn’t all the way on. 

code 19 trips all the time in the YDT system, is pretty much a “red herring” code which can be ignored unless the bike presents with a problem. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it in DIAG mode for (up to) 16 models (of any Yamaha). Usually the neutral safety relay fails, not the sidestand switch. 

And yes, now you’ll have a clean slate in case something trips down the road. honestly, I recommend everyone check and clear codes at every service, just in case. 

welcome to the hidden inner view of your (our) bikes. wait till you make the abs cycle, that one’s more fun.

-Skip

Thanks Skipper.  Numerical order of course!  Guess that's obvious really, now that I'm standing back looking at  it...derrr.🙄

Yes, I'll be putting DIAG 61 & 62 on the list every time I service the bike from now on.

Ha!  Looking forward to the ABS trick.  Way safer than getting it to activate the old fashioned and riskier way.

Cheers for the help and advice. 👍 

[2and3cylinders]

I'm going to go through this too!

Skip, what page is tripping the ABS on again?

Thx

[TomTracer]

Nobody has mentioned the "kill" switch on the right brake cluster. Could be something there. If you take it apart be careful. I had a problem there on an old bike yrs ago. 

[dazzler24]

8 hours ago, TomTracer said:

Nobody has mentioned the "kill" switch on the right brake cluster. Could be something there. If you take it apart be careful. I had a problem there on an old bike yrs ago. 

Thanks Tom.  I guess it's a possibility but I'm thinking not, at least in my case.   I say that because it was a matter of recycling the key to get me back up and running.

 I know that there are reports of people bumping it into the off position from time to time but not me in this case.

Worth a mention though. 👍

[Wintersdark]

On 3/16/2023 at 2:47 AM, OZVFR said:

Sorry, missed the check engine light on first post. 
I don’t think side stand operates the engine light. 
Do you have a manual?

If not PM me with your email address and I’ll send you a copy. 

The sidestand doesn't normally trigger the CEL but if it kills the bike at highway speeds *only briefly* while you're still in gear and moving it's entirely possible that the ECU throws a code as it expects the bike to be running except it's not.

 

I'd put money on the sidestand switch being the culprit. Maybe just a one-off because some junk got knocked into it, or maybe it becomes an ongoing problem.  If it's one-off who cares, if it happens again though the first step is jumping the switch to see if it happens again without the switch in use.

 

Regardless, I'm definitely curious how this pans out.

[dazzler24]

On 3/22/2023 at 7:38 AM, Wintersdark said:

The sidestand doesn't normally trigger the CEL but if it kills the bike at highway speeds *only briefly* while you're still in gear and moving it's entirely possible that the ECU throws a code as it expects the bike to be running except it's not.

 

I'd put money on the sidestand switch being the culprit. Maybe just a one-off because some junk got knocked into it, or maybe it becomes an ongoing problem.  If it's one-off who cares, if it happens again though the first step is jumping the switch to see if it happens again without the switch in use.

 

Regardless, I'm definitely curious how this pans out.

Thanks for that.  I did wonder about what crazy signals the ECU might have gotten under a completely unusual set of circumstances and hence a CEL.

When I cleaned out the sidestand switch, while it appeared to be in pretty good condition, I felt that the little spring that presses the little copper bridge that completes the circuit when activated was possibly applying a weak force.  So, just in case, I gave it a little stretch and it should be making positive contact now - if indeed that was the problem?!

I really don't want it to happen again as I was lucky that it happened where it did - flat country road and zero traffic. I would have hated to have been in highway traffic or a steep climb or in a tight corner etc.  Anyway, I guess if it does happen again I will be semi-prepared for it.

[Wintersdark]

On 3/21/2023 at 3:59 PM, dazzler24 said:

Thanks for that.  I did wonder about what crazy signals the ECU might have gotten under a completely unusual set of circumstances and hence a CEL.

When I cleaned out the sidestand switch, while it appeared to be in pretty good condition, I felt that the little spring that presses the the little copper bridge that completes the circuit when activated was possibly applying a weak force.  So, just in case, I gave it a little stretch and it should be making positive contact now - if indeed that was the problem?!

I really don't want it to happen again as I was lucky that it happened where it did - flat country road and zero traffic. I would have hated to have been in highway traffic or a steep climb or in a tight corner etc.  Anyway, I guess if it does happen again I will be semi-prepared for it.

If it does, and won't restart in gear, try neutral.  If it restarts in neutral, but dies when you put it in gear, that's definitely the sidestand switch.  If that does happen, you can just cut the wires to the sidestand switch and connect them together to make the bike run and get you home.  

[dazzler24]

1 hour ago, Wintersdark said:

If it does, and won't restart in gear, try neutral.  If it restarts in neutral, but dies when you put it in gear, that's definitely the sidestand switch.  If that does happen, you can just cut the wires to the sidestand switch and connect them together to make the bike run and get you home.  

That makes good sense. 👍

[heli5]

I had this happen to me during my first time touring on the 900 GT with only a couple of hundred miles on it. It came to a stop at the side of the road and would only restart with the clutch engaged. Every time I released the clutch the engine cut out. After phoning the dealer ( who was not able to help other than suggesting the clutch switch or side stand switch may be faulty I removed the seat and wiggled some of the wires around. The bike then restarted ok (but with the engine check light on) and ran perfectly for a number of miles until I got to my overnight destination. On arrival I removed the seat again and experimented by wiggling the large connector near the battery and discovered that the engine would cut out as I did it. I have now applied electrical grease (dielectric grease) to the terminals in that connector block and the problem has never reoccurred in the last couple of years.

[heli5]

On 3/17/2023 at 5:50 AM, dazzler24 said:

I've been trolling around the interwebs trying to catch some clues on this issue and one I came across was to make sure that the ignition switch is positively in the on position as there were reports (anecdotally) that that could cause an engine to stop unexpectedly.

I did note that on two occasions yesterday on my ride that I had to turn the key just a tad more to feel it notch into position prior to startup.  Ignition lights did come up but the key wasn't quite 'locked' into the on position.  I don't know if this was a contributing factor but thought I'd throw it out there in case someone else had experienced it or could comment as to the likelihood of that being a possible issue. @skipperT?

On a side note and in retrospect I wondered why the bike didn't lock up the rear wheel when the engine just stopped dead.  I'm guessing I can thank my aftermarket slipper clutch for that.

It wouldn't lock up the rear wheel if the engine 'just stopped' unless you were in a very low gear. The momentum of the bike will easily keep the engine turning over. It would be no different from closing the throttle when travelling along, unless of course the engine had seized or locked up which isn't what we are dealing with here.