Disable ABS

[xlxr]

The sciency part would be if you repeat my simple test and report back your results.

[wessie]

The sciency part would be if you repeat my simple test and report back your results.

that would be anecdotal evidence, rather than scientific as you are not controlling the variables mentioned in the previous post

[xlxr]

If enough people try it, rear brake only with and without ABS activation, 40 mph, straight line, dry pavement, and all get the same results, it will be scientifically valid. If enough people try it, and results are not consistent, then we will have to refine the parameters.
 
The single biggest factor we cannot control is rider skill, all the other factors are too minor to bother with. 
 
I watched some ABS videos, it would be nice to have a bike with out-riggers for safer testing.  But in those videos, on wet roads, the guys without ABS locked up brakes and never let go.  That is a completely poor riding technique.  It would have been a more realistic comparison if the guys without ABS tried to maintain control. 
 
I rarely have to ride in the rain, maybe once every 2 or 3 years, so I do not consider those tests valid for my riding condition.  I live in a city, even in the mountains, there are always other cars.  I cannot remember how many times I have had to hit the brakes hard to avoid accident with some car that pulled out in front of me.  Reducing braking distance on dry pavement is far more important to me than wet weather riding conditions.
 

[wessie]

If enough people try it, rear brake only with and without ABS activation, 40 mph, straight line, dry pavement, and all get the same results, it will be scientifically valid. If enough people try it, and results are not consistent, then we will have to refine the parameters. 

 
It won't be scientifically valid. I equate that term to something that would stand up to scrutiny to be published in an academic journal.
 
The last sentence also suggests that if the study does not confirm your assumptions then you will change the parameters until the results do verify your assumptions.
 
This is a model used by large corporations when they pay a university to undertake research on their behalf. They only publish the results that back up the marketing and suppress any data that contradicts their so called findings.
 
 
 

[jrkman]

If enough people try it, rear brake only with and without ABS activation, 40 mph, straight line, dry pavement, and all get the same results, it will be scientifically valid. If enough people try it, and results are not consistent, then we will have to refine the parameters. 
The single biggest factor we cannot control is rider skill, all the other factors are too minor to bother with. 
 
I watched some ABS videos, it would be nice to have a bike with out-riggers for safer testing.  But in those videos, on wet roads, the guys without ABS locked up brakes and never let go.  That is a completely poor riding technique.  It would have been a more realistic comparison if the guys without ABS tried to maintain control. 
 
I rarely have to ride in the rain, maybe once every 2 or 3 years, so I do not consider those tests valid for my riding condition.  I live in a city, even in the mountains, there are always other cars.  I cannot remember how many times I have had to hit the brakes hard to avoid accident with some car that pulled out in front of me.  Reducing braking distance on dry pavement is far more important to me than wet weather riding conditions.

 
I really don't get the issue here... Plain and simple, if you activate abs, you would have started to lose traction without it which would increase your stopping distance. Abs tries to keep you from losing traction to have a more controlled stop. If you don't want abs to engage then don't lose traction and use proper brake control. Abs is for when you **** up. Now if you are trying to slide, then I can see why you wouldn't want abs.

[jjb]

In my simple test, ABS on rear only increased stopping distance by 5 to 10 feet from 40 mph on dry paved road in a straight line.  Pretty much proves  under those conditions, ABS on rear takes longer to stop.   I will also submit, if you cannot control rear wheel skid without ABS, your riding skills are not adequate and you need ABS.  
No more theory and assumptions.  I want to hear from guys who have actually tried my test, to see if they get the same results.

I'll try this tomorrow. What force did you apply to the brake lever each time, was it in Nm ft-lb? How many runs did you have to do to reach a 95% confidence level when you calculated the variance between ABS and non-ABS? Presumably you used the Chi-Squared test? I'm a little rusty on some of the comparative stats but appreciate the need erradicate any theories or assumptions.

[xlxr]

The sciency part would be if you repeat my simple test and report back your results.

that would be anecdotal evidence, rather than scientific as you are not controlling the variables mentioned in the previous post

Same guy, same bike, same road, that will control enough variables for me.  We're talking braking distance, not trying to get a PhD and publish the results. 
...And, I am making this up as I go along, so I reserve the right to change the rules any time I want.
 

[xlxr]

 

I really don't get the issue here... Plain and simple, if you activate abs, you would have started to lose traction without it which would increase your stopping distance. Abs tries to keep you from losing traction to have a more controlled stop. If you don't want abs to engage then don't lose traction and use proper brake control. Abs is for when you **** up. Now if you are trying to slide, then I can see why you wouldn't want abs.

The issue for me is I cannot feel the difference between front and rear ABS kicking in, so I don't know which brake lever to modulate.  I haven't had time for any additional riding/testing recently and may not for a few more weeks, but reading these opinions is only getting me more confused. 

[xlxr]

In my simple test, ABS on rear only increased stopping distance by 5 to 10 feet from 40 mph on dry paved road in a straight line.  Pretty much proves  under those conditions, ABS on rear takes longer to stop.   I will also submit, if you cannot control rear wheel skid without ABS, your riding skills are not adequate and you need ABS.  
No more theory and assumptions.  I want to hear from guys who have actually tried my test, to see if they get the same results.

I'll try this tomorrow. What force did you apply to the brake lever each time, was it in Nm ft-lb? How many runs did you have to do to reach a 95% confidence level when you calculated the variance between ABS and non-ABS? Presumably you used the Chi-Squared test? I'm a little rusty on some of the comparative stats but appreciate the need erradicate any theories or assumptions.

Start easy and don't exceed your riding skills.  I have no idea what Chi-Squared test means.   I don't think you need a MN ft-lb gauge, just use rocks, cracks, shadows for measuring stopping distance.  That way there is nothing to calculate.  But be prepared for all the scientific criticism from all the scientists around here.   But my assumption is this whole discussion has turned into comical side show from a bunch of theorists who read the owners manual to figure out how to mash down on a brake pedal.  (pun intended) 
I doubt I will have any more to contribute to this conversation until I get my bike back together and get some of my own test riding done.
 

[alejandro]

rear brake only with and without ABS activation, 40 mph, straight line, dry pavement

I'm not sure why this is an interesting thing to test. What is the point of figuring out the stopping distance when using the rear brake only? That's like saying, "How fast can you run on one foot?" It may be measurable, but I don't think it's relevant to the real world.
 
In the real world, if you are max braking from 40 mph on an FJ in a straight line on dry pavement, you are hard on the front brake, and there is approximately zero weight on the rear wheel, so rear wheel braking performance matters little. And with approximately zero weight on the rear wheel, it becomes very easy to lock up the rear, with no benefit and a fair amount of potential downside. So for threshold braking, rear ABS is pure win AFAIC.
 
Front ABS is an entirely different question, but I'm happy to have front ABS too...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[captainscarlet]

I'll try this tomorrow. What force did you apply to the brake lever each time, was it in Nm ft-lb? How many runs did you have to do to reach a 95% confidence level when you calculated the variance between ABS and non-ABS? Presumably you used the Chi-Squared test? I'm a little rusty on some of the comparative stats but appreciate the need erradicate any theories or assumptions.

Start easy and don't exceed your riding skills.  I have no idea what Chi-Squared test means.   I don't think you need a MN ft-lb gauge, just use rocks, cracks, shadows for measuring stopping distance.  That way there is nothing to calculate.  But be prepared for all the scientific criticism from all the scientists around here.   But my assumption is this whole discussion has turned into comical side show from a bunch of theorists who read the owners manual to figure out how to mash down on a brake pedal.  (pun intended) 
I doubt I will have any more to contribute to this conversation until I get my bike back together and get some of my own test riding done.

Whoosh!

[wessie]

With respect to telling which end has ABS activating, it is quite easy to tell as the back pressure is felt through the lever/pedal.
 
I often feel the rear ABS modulate on a very steep downhill road with a 90 degree bend at the bottom. The front end is so loaded there is very little traction for the rear tyre so the ABS triggers even with light rear braking. If you can't feel the brake pedal modulate then you need to see your doctor quickly as you may have some neuropathic problem.

[xlxr]

 

I'm not sure why this is an interesting thing to test. What is the point of figuring out the stopping distance when using the rear brake only? That's like saying, "How fast can you run on one foot?" It may be measurable, but I don't think it's relevant to the real world. 
In the real world, if you are max braking from 40 mph on an FJ in a straight line on dry pavement, you are hard on the front brake, and there is approximately zero weight on the rear wheel, so rear wheel braking performance matters little. And with approximately zero weight on the rear wheel, it becomes very easy to lock up the rear, with no benefit and a fair amount of potential downside. So for threshold braking, rear ABS is pure win AFAIC.
 
Front ABS is an entirely different question, but I'm happy to have front ABS too...
 
Read more: http://fj-09.org/thread/1507/disable-abs#ixzz46Zg1TU1Q
ert quote here

I agree with this statement 100%.  This is my first bike with ABS, and I am trying how to use it most effectively, which means being able to modulate lever pressure of front brake lever. 
 

[captainscarlet]

I agree with this statement 100%.  This is my first bike with ABS, and I am trying how to use it most effectively, which means being able to modulate lever pressure of front brake lever. 

Yeah but I think the point is you don't need to learn how to use ABS effectively, it does everything for you.  If you modulate the brake lever you will not be using ABS.  The brakes on an ABS equipped bike perform identically to the brakes on a non-ABS bike, right up until the point a wheel loses traction.  I believe this has already been stated earlier in this thread. 
To use ABS effectively i.e. to allow it to do it's job you must brake as hard as possible and let the system do the work.  When the system was first introduced on cars and even today people tend to lift off the brake pedal when it starts pulsating.  This is a bad thing because you're reducing brake pressure and extending the stopping distance.
 
CS
 

[Guest bruinfj09guy]

I've had a couple of opportunities to test the ABS and I'm glad I have it. I also tend to brake pretty hard even when not a "test" type situation, and I think the ABS saves me some rubber.
 
ABS was a selling feature for me on this bike. I can't imagine why anyone would want to disable it. The benefits (i.e. not locking up and skidding into a wipeout in a "test" situation) outweigh a marginal increase in stopping distance assuming I braked optimally without ABS and didn't lock up. I actually can't imagine stopping distance is increased due to ABS by any impactful amount.