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Brakes - full servicing methods and frequency


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So, to all of the brake aficionados out there.  What are your brake servicing routines and how far do you go?

i.e. do you routinely remove and clean the pistons from the calipers as well as the calipers themselves?

When replacing the brake pads do you also replace the associated spring too as per the manual?

Do you use compressed air to get those pistons out as per the book recommendation or use other methods?

I see that the manual for the 2015 model says to replace piston and dust seals every two years.  Necessary?

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Is everyone doing all this or is it a clean and inspect for the most part?

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None of the above

Flush fluid annually via vacuum or more often if it was a wet season

At every tire change or twice or thrice a season:

Remove calipers and clean with 91% isopropyl alcohol in a spray bottle & my best toothbrush, lightly buff & treat pins with dry film molybdenum disulfide paste that sticks like glue but does attract dust or dirt. Crosshatch scrub* rotors with alkyl & red Scotchbrite pads; very analy always after pad changes.

I don't use brake cleaner often and only when I'm lazy.

*I've also bead blasted and stoned honed rotors, and back n the day, mill broach honed them.

I never remove pistons unless they seep or leak but have buffed lightly scuffed, uncoated pistons, new seals are cheap insurance when in doubt. Low compressed air works but with spacer blocks between with a foam pad...

I've NEVER replaced the springs (pressure, shudder clips) but clean & inspect. Even on my 98 112k mile VTR...

Pad bed-in and fluid selection is most critical.

PM if you need more input D-Man 

Hope you've all been great.

We're doing ok

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15 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

None of the above

Flush fluid annually via vacuum or more often if it was a wet season

At every tire change or twice or thrice a season:

Remove calipers and clean with 91% isopropyl alcohol in a spray bottle & my best toothbrush, lightly buff & treat pins with dry film molybdenum disulfide paste that sticks like glue but does attract dust or dirt. Crosshatch scrub* rotors with alkyl & red Scotchbrite pads; very analy always after pad changes.

I don't use brake cleaner often and only when I'm lazy.

*I've also bead blasted and stoned honed rotors, and back n the day, mill broach honed them.

I never remove pistons unless they seep or leak but have buffed lightly scuffed, uncoated pistons, new seals are cheap insurance when in doubt. Low compressed air works but with spacer blocks between with a foam pad...

I've NEVER replaced the springs (pressure, shudder clips) but clean & inspect. Even on my 98 112k mile VTR...

Pad bed-in and fluid selection is most critical.

PM if you need more input D-Man 

Hope you've all been great.

We're doing ok

Thanks 2and3.  Thought you'd be one of the early responders - always welcomed.

Yes, I'm kind of glad to hear your responses as I couldn't find any in my searching that pointed at a regular maintenance routine that was any more involved than what you've just stated (other than in the service manual).

I guess if it ain't broke.....

While we're discussing brakes, I've used these Ferodo sintered units on the front that have served me well.  What's the consensus regarding the rear?  I'm still using the organic OEM ones that have always felt less than stellar.

 image.png.9a7fb5d6e6ef7061fda4119ef980f77d.png

Sounds like you're recovery is progressing in the right direction. Good to know.

 

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I probably could do a better job of brake maintenance.  I clean the pistons and calipers with a toothbrush and brake cleaner whenever I replace the pads.  Flush and bleed the brake lines once a year in the springtime when riding weather returns.  That is about it and I have never had any issues other than having to rebuild the master cylinder on my Kawasaki at 41,000 miles.

 

I highly recommend Vesrah brake pads for a nice upgrade.  They are expensive, but I used them on my track bike and they performed so well under those harsh conditions that I now use them on my street bikes.

Edited by johnmark101
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There is nothing like spending a day riding with friends in the grip of a shared obsession.

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44 minutes ago, johnmark101 said:

I probably could do a better job of brake maintenance.  I clean the pistons and calipers with a toothbrush and brake cleaner whenever I replace the pads.  Flush and bleed the brake lines once a year in the springtime when riding weather returns.  That is about it and I have never had any issues other than having to rebuild the master cylinder on my Kawasaki at 41,000 miles.

This is pretty much the norm for anyone unless they have a ton of extra time on their hands and like to tinker, slightly crazy or are completely OCD. 

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One more issue I may address by cleaning the calipers and possibly removing the pistons. 

That being pad drag due to the pistons not retracting. It's my understanding that the reason piston O-rings are square rather than round, is the square profile "tips" in the bore under pressure, then tip back pulling the pistons back in when pressure is released.

If the O-rings wear or the pistons and/or cylinder get scored due to grit, or are pitted or actually develop tiny bumps and ridges from corrosion build-up due to excessive moisture in the hygroscopic brake fluid (the calipers being the lowest point in the system), piston retraction is inhibited causing pad drag and elevated rotor temperatures, which then causes excessive fluid temps and pressure and piston expansion, which creates other serious issues.

The foregoing is the primary reason to flush and bleed the system, which takes me maybe a half hour total, not including caliper cleaning; which can be done the lazy way by raising the tire, and spinning the rotors while spraying with 91% isopropyl alkyl or brake cleaner.  But abrading the rotors a couple times a year is a very good thing to promote 2-finger braking and mandatory when changing pads.

Now if I could just develop a technique to activate and cycle the ABS pump so the fluid in there gets flushed short of cramming on the brakes on a slick surface, I'd be very pleased.

Of course replacing the brake hoses is automatic for me on new bikes thatcome with rubber hoses.

Any quality HH+ sintered pads are better for experienced pilots over the wooden Yamaha OEM GG-rated pads in the front.  However, I prefer less grippy rear pads because BITD before ABS, I was concerned about locking the usually less easy to modulate rear system; except for further BITD with abysmal drum brakes. In fact, I sought out SBS low-friction (LF) rear pads which sadly they discontinued.

And then there's the topic of the OEM front brake master cylinder which imparts very short lever travel, compounding theIMO wooden feel front brakes. That's why I went to a R1 radial MC and its 320 mm rotors.  R6 components are another option too...

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Like others have mentioned, I do NOT follow the recommendations in the service manual. 
I flush the fluid annually and for the pistons, I extended them until the shiny clean surface is exposed and then clean the crud with brake fluid and a tooth brush and then spray with brake cleaner. 
I have never had to replace a piston, seal or spring. 

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***2015 Candy Red FJ-09***

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11 hours ago, dazzler24 said:

I see that the manual for the 2015 model says to replace piston and dust seals every two years. 

image.png.1d6a5dc797549c85def816704b702c50.png

Another data point that supports my philosophy of never reading the owner’s manual… 😀

So, uh… no.   I flush & replace brake fluid semi-regularly, but beyond that I only mess with the brake internals if there’s a problem.   I’ll clean up the visible crud on the outside of pistons & seals when I have the brake pads out, but the rest of that seems REALLY excessive to me.    

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Closed system like in our cars, so why is it believed that motorcycle brake fluid needs changed more frequently than in a car? If I rode my motorcycle on wet salty roads, then I could see more often or more intensive cleaning/checking of the pistons and calipers. If I swap the pads......I change the fluid, otherwise what's in there is working perfectly fine unless it is perhaps older than 10 years old. I am still using the original brake fluid and pads on my 2017 R1200 GS, and those brakes are still working/feeling quite well. ;) I say do whatever a person needs to sleep better, but there are more than a few beyond OCD motorcycle owners around the world. So wet salty roads or fair amount of riding off pavement, then I can see more frequent scrutiny of the brake systems. Worry less, wrench less.......ride more.

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I test my brake fluid for moisture content.

But it's so easy to do.Why not once a year at least gives you the opportunity to inspect things

 If you've got the wheel off or changing pads cleaning the calipers is also good practice same with greasing the wheel bearings etc 

 When I have the pads out, I also brush them with a stainless steel brush and as I said, clean the rotors with scotch bright.

Brakes are the last thing you want to have a problem with.

Then tires

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Every 2 years.  Remove the calipers and check the pads, look at the dust seals, and check hoses for cracks and stiffness or hardening. Replace them if they are getting hard. Change brake fluid with a vacuum pump. On my last bike at 50k miles I changed the front and rear brake master cylinder pistons and seals. The FJ09 has less than 12K, so they are not ready yet.

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Thanks all who posted.

So, the general consensus is to leave well enough alone other than to do the regular brake fluid change every 2 years and basic clean up in and around the callipers.

This is basically what I do but will pay a little more attention to getting the crud out from behind the pads and around the pistons in future.

I'm glad that I've asked this question of the learned as I was concerned that I'd neglected the brakes badly after reading what the manual was telling me I should be doing!  Seemed like overkill to me but nice to confirm from the brain's trust that I haven't completely lost the plot.... yet!

So, now that that's cleared up, what are your brake pad recommendations?  Thanks for the Vesrah brake pads tip @johnmark101.  I assume you are referring to the VD-248JL sintered pads?

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18 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I test my brake fluid for moisture content.

But it's so easy to do.Why not once a year at least gives you the opportunity to inspect things

 If you've got the wheel off or changing pads cleaning the calipers is also good practice same with greasing the wheel bearings etc 

 When I have the pads out, I also brush them with a stainless steel brush and as I said, clean the rotors with scotch bright.

Brakes are the last thing you want to have a problem with.

Then tires

So you do the same for your cars?

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21 hours ago, Ride365 said:

Closed system like in our cars, so why is it believed that motorcycle brake fluid needs changed more frequently than in a car? If I rode my motorcycle on wet salty roads, then I could see more often or more intensive cleaning/checking of the pistons and calipers. If I swap the pads......I change the fluid, otherwise what's in there is working perfectly fine unless it is perhaps older than 10 years old. I am still using the original brake fluid and pads on my 2017 R1200 GS, and those brakes are still working/feeling quite well. ;) I say do whatever a person needs to sleep better, but there are more than a few beyond OCD motorcycle owners around the world. So wet salty roads or fair amount of riding off pavement, then I can see more frequent scrutiny of the brake systems. Worry less, wrench less.......ride more.

While I do agree with your statement in general, there are a couple things I will say that’s different between cars and bikes. First off, the actual volume of fluid they use with a bike being far less so ANY moisture makes a huge difference, then the reservoirs on bikes are generally out in the open and not under a hood protected from the sun and finally the braking components like the lines are mostly steel in a car with only the very ends being flexible where even steel braided lines on bikes are rubber inside so a lot easier for air to get in.
 

Also for the most part you’re using your hand to brake, not your foot, so you can feel a lot sooner when the fluid is getting aged. 
 

I do bike brakes about every 2 seasons and do notice a difference, cars about every 5 years or 50,000 miles and again it does feel firmer after. 

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