What did you do to your FJ-tracer-gt today?

[texscottyd]

54 minutes ago, Clegg78 said:

I am assuming the guy just saw the black car turning and didn't see me coming behind

Looking at the rear camera shot in your last picture, that’s what immediately came to mind for me, too.   He likely would have seen you if you were alone, but he subconsciously ‘locked in’ on the turning car, and mentally never registered that you were coming as well.  

The human mind does some amazing things, but they’re not always good.     

Glad you’re safe, and another valuable data point gained…  

[Clegg78]

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I presume (incorrectly?) that you have a loud horn (i.e., added second 105 db Fiamm low-tone disc horn like me or replaced the OEM horn with a "blaster)?  If so, did you use it during this incident and if so, it presumably had no real desired effect?

Yeah... the total of 4 seconds the entire event transpired from the moment he started rolling to when I was past, I was not about to waste time looking for the horn, and just move myself out of the way.   The horn placement on this bike is a PITA to hit anyway, especially if you are on the bars bracing for an evasive maneuver. 

Not saying it wouldn't have helped, just was at the bottom of my list of things to do in those seconds.    I've looked at the video a lot... and really from the moment I saw him (since I was also behind a car and couldn't see him there until the car moved to the turn lane), and saw him start to move, to the point I reacted was under 1 second, and I was in the opposing lane by 2 seconds, and past him and back moving into the normal lane by 5 seconds.   If there was oncoming traffic, other steps would have been taken. 

[Clegg78]

1 hour ago, betoney said:

One thing that I do when following a vehicle and there are cars pulling out on side roads is to change my position in the lane so that I am out from behind the vehicle I am following, (in clear line of sight of the car pulling out) not in the center of the lane. 

I do this generally,  especially in-town.    I think in this case the car was delayed going into the turn lane, and kept me blocked from the white SUV pretty late.   Even with me already being close to the centerline of the road and distanced behind the turning black car.   But that is a great suggestion overall!   We always need to keep visible!

[Clegg78]

One other perk of good dash cams, is even if he did hit, I have his full license plate number before I got into the intersection   

[Clegg78]

More post mortem:

This is the first view of the white car I had, as you can see the Outback was late getting into the turn lane at the last moment.   I was already on the centerline 

He really accelerated into the intersection fast, faster than normal, which I think is what threw me off on the timing.   It does look like he tapped the brakes milliseconds before this frame, you can see the chassis pitch forward slightly.   But he never stops rolling.   Note the nice pic of the license plate

[2and3cylinders]

Staying out from behind either on the left or right is critical. I often hug the centerline or "fog" line.  I agree the horn button is difficult to find, which is why I trimmed off the indexing pin and rotated both the left and right control pods to my liking; of course adjusting the brake and clutch levers is equally important.  I have very painful left thumb and index finger major joints, which makes manipulating the switches and even sometimes clutching very challenging.  Another reason I really push headlight modulators.  With the din of traffic, often the loudest horns get lost and are directionally confusing.  Optic nerve stimulation has been proven to be the most effective attention getter.  You just hope they're not the 3% of epileptics who would seize but 1 in 10,000 adults actually do.

https://kisantech.com/p115w-h3-fj04.html

P115W-H3-FJ04

 

2015 & Newer Yamaha FJ-09, YZF and Tracer models with Factory LED headlights

[texscottyd]

@Clegg78 - Thanks for being transparent enough to post this in an honest & clear fashion.   We’re all guilty of this, but that one is at least a little bit on you…  😉

You inadvertently used that black SUV as a moving pick, which is super easy to do in the constant ebb and flow of urban traffic.    Assuming the white Jeep driver looked back to his right to make sure he was safe to turn across, you would have literally ‘come out of nowhere’ from his 10:00 position.  100% his responsibility, and it would have been 100% his fault for a collision, but you’re still the one that would have suffered about 99% of the brunt of the impact.    Glad it all resolved without issue.  

GREAT learning moment here!  I’ll definitely keep this more actively in mind with my future rides… I really am invisible on the motorcycle.  

[Wintersdark]

6 hours ago, betoney said:

One thing that I do when following a vehicle and there are cars pulling out on side roads is to change my position in the lane so that I am out from behind the vehicle I am following, (in clear line of sight of the car pulling out) not in the center of the lane. 

If a car is potentially pulling out from the left, I ride closer to the center line and if from the right, I ride closer to the fog line or right edge of my lane. 

You might already do this but just thought I would throw it out there.

Yup.  Make sure you've got line of sight directly to the other driver themselves.  I tend to change lane position constantly when riding in town, always to be most visible to those that may need to see me, and to maintain escape routes at all times.  It sounds like some high-stress nightmare, but I gamified the process while learning a long time ago and now it's just automatic.  So much so that there's no concept whatsoever of "you should be in <this> lane position" but rather just being wherever it's best to be at any given time. 

Like @2and3cylinders said, you need to ride like everyone else is painfully stupid, absolutely narcissistic, and not paying any attention at all.  It doesn't matter if you're in the right or wrong when you're splattered across the side of a minivan. 

[Wintersdark]

4 hours ago, Clegg78 said:

Yeah... the total of 4 seconds the entire event transpired from the moment he started rolling to when I was past, I was not about to waste time looking for the horn, and just move myself out of the way.   The horn placement on this bike is a PITA to hit anyway, especially if you are on the bars bracing for an evasive maneuver. 

Not saying it wouldn't have helped, just was at the bottom of my list of things to do in those seconds.    I've looked at the video a lot... and really from the moment I saw him (since I was also behind a car and couldn't see him there until the car moved to the turn lane), and saw him start to move, to the point I reacted was under 1 second, and I was in the opposing lane by 2 seconds, and past him and back moving into the normal lane by 5 seconds.   If there was oncoming traffic, other steps would have been taken. 

Absolutely.  In cars, sure, but on bikes?  In situations like this, honking is so far down on the list of priorities I know I've never actually done it.  It never improves the situation (someone cutting in front of you will often reflexively brake making things even worse!) and yeah... It's way, way better to focus 100% on evasion.  

[2and3cylinders]

I hate to keep bringing it up but headlight modulators are set and forget.

 In my long experience running them I've found people get the hell out of my way because they think I'm either a cop or an emergency vehicle.  It's really amazing they just flat out work!

 I used to be a motorcycle courier in San Francisco before HLM, disc brakes, BART, and decent tires and lighting were available, earning my bones in that town in 73 when it was super crazy!

 I also commuted to downtown Chicago on the various freeways as well as ran from job to job for probably a dozen years before I gave up on that due to the advent of cell phones.  Like anyone who's done this and survived, you develop a 6th sense and somehow know what drivers are gonna do before they know.   It all becomes 2nd nature, automatic, and like Winter, said you treat it like a high speed action game to stay sane, albeit a life-and-death game.

 

[2and3cylinders]

Clegg,

 I was just looking at the gas prices at that off brand station in one of your photos.

 Take a look at our gas prices at for example a brand name like BP in Cook County Illinois.  Now I get 10 cents off those prices and it can be found significantly cheaper in the collar counties.

[2and3cylinders]

Up in God's country where you can find E0 91 proof...

[Clegg78]

Too many good comments to quote them all.  But yea this is a great teaching moment!   And even a small non mistake but bad foresight can cost a lot.   Thanks for all the input!
 

I had a motorcycle advance handling course instructor a long time ago say “if you get hit by a car, in most cases the question you should be asking is why you let that happen”   “Don’t be a target, and don’t put yourself into positions to be a target” “everyone is out to kill you, ride like that” (which can be paralyzing and hyperbolic if you don’t know how to process that. Every time I see a semi I think “ohh an apex predator”  )

The challenge is understanding when you are making yourself a target!   Live (hopefully) and Learn! 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Clegg78

[Clegg78]

6 hours ago, texscottyd said:

@Clegg78 - Thanks for being transparent enough to post this in an honest & clear fashion.   We’re all guilty of this, but that one is at least a little bit on you…  😉

You inadvertently used that black SUV as a moving pick, which is super easy to do in the constant ebb and flow of urban traffic.    Assuming the white Jeep driver looked back to his right to make sure he was safe to turn across, you would have literally ‘come out of nowhere’ from his 10:00 position.  100% his responsibility, and it would have been 100% his fault for a collision, but you’re still the one that would have suffered about 99% of the brunt of the impact.    Glad it all resolved without issue.  

So I had to look up what a moving pick was   I am not into basketball which I think is the source of the term.   And I think you are right.  I wasn’t trying to use the black car as that, but the late braking the car did and the fast last minute turn meant I closed up on the back of it and shadowed it into the intersection.  The white car likely did exactly as you said, and I likely moved into the A pillar blind spot at some point as well, which on some cars is big. 

[Clegg78]

2 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Up in God's country where you can find E0 91 proof...

The loaf and jug is actually kind of a normal brand out here , I think they use ConocoPhillips fuel.   And a lot of these stations have dedicated 91 E0 pumps as well     For some reason all the gas in Colorado and southern Wyoming is big money.  Northern Wyoming and MT is .50- .75$ gal cheaper!