3rd cam chain tensioner update?

[bgigharbor]

My CCT started to make noise intermittently at 5700 miles. My production date is 11/14. I took it to the dealer, and of course it made no noise when I was there. That didn't seem to be an issue, as soon as I said, "It sounds like the CCT..." they ordered me a new one. I just returned from having it replaced, no hassle at all.

Wow, your dealer is more helpful than mine. 
Mine says Yamaha is a bear to get to pay for warranty work these days.  Says they had an fz-09 that needed a cct and Yamaha made them jump through lots of hoops before they would pay for it.
 
And I bought a defective saddle bag recently and it took Yamaha about 5 wks to replace it (even though it was new and unused and in the original wrapping). 
 
Dealer says Yamaha is trying to cut costs.
 

[adjuster]

If I did not love the bike, I would not have bought the same engine as what failed before.
 
That said, if yours is making noise, get the dealer to change it out under warranty if you can.
 
If not, the manual adjust unit is less than 100.00 direct from APR, and it was made specific for this bike when so many folks were having issues in 2014 on the FZ09's.
 
The key is to pull the cover that allows access to the cam chain and tensioners. You want the manual adjuster to be just snug, but not too much pressure, that will cause wear when you don't need to cause wear. Read the instructions, but IIRC, it's tighten to snug, then back it off a half turn, and lock the unit, then check the slider/tensioner to make sure it's not too loose or too snug. Loose is floppy, snug is a hard to move side to side chain. It should have some slack, but be riding along the nylon slider material.
 
Mine was so worn, the plastic was split in two, and the chain was running against the aluminum frame the nylon snaps over, and aluminum debris as well as curled up shavings of nylon were all throughout the engine.
 
From what I can see of how the CCT works, it has a set point adjustment, and there is a spring to keep it under pressure. As the slider wears, or the chain stretches, the ratchet mechanism allows the CCT to move the tensioner tighter.
 
The problem is, with the vibration from the engine, the ratchet system is pushed into a loose setting too easy, so you have noise. Sounds like someone dragging a screwdriver along a chain. Tick tick tick tick tick tick that goes up and down with RPM.
 
The dealer is supposed to try and adjust the setting back to where it's tight again, but not too tight. This works for a moment, and then the ratchet allows it to pop loose again, and you get the tick tick tick noise again. It will come and go too, very annoying, as noted, the noise might not be there while you are at the dealer, but ride home, and it's doing it constantly. Or at random.
 
The "new" units seem to have a smoother machined surface that the ratchet system works in, and that lack of rough surface, and even debris that some folks found when they took them apart, seem to help the CCT work as designed.
 
BUT, and it's a big BUT, the system is still a flawed design. It has a failure prone ratchet system that as your engine wears, if it gets any debris in there, or has any oil varnish, is going to back off loose, or worse, allow for the chain to jump a cam sprocket tooth, bind up like mine did, or result in total engine failure with the debris from a broken/worn system being ground up and scattered into bearings, piston bores/skirts etc.
 
Can it go 100,000 miles? I don't know, but I'm not very trusting of the design anymore. IT's a great engine Yamaha builds, but they put a cheap fix to avoid asking folks to adjust a manual CCT every 10k or so. (Heck, you really don't need to adjust it unless you have noise, so it might take 20, 30 or 40k or more to wear enough to cause noise. Especially if you adjust it after a few thousand miles, and the chain stretch is done.
 
As it is, if the ratchet unit fails, the unregulated spring pressure pushes the slider to death on the cam chain, and you have engine failure.

[skipperT]

No not quite. "The unregulated spring pressure" isn't what wears the chain. It is constantly putting pressure on the guide to keep the tension in spec. This is what it was designed to do.
 
Getting the chain locked into TOO TIGHT of a position is what prematurely wears a chain.
 
If the ratchet mechanism fails, it usually won't allow the chain to MAINTAIN its tension, allowing it to go loose, which is when you hear the rattling sound.
 
And FYI, ***EVERY*** motorcycle and atv engine made in the last 20-30 years by the Big 4 uses a similar, self adjusting tensioner design. Which is thousands, if not millions of engines running out there without issue. Some use and hydraulic (oil) assist, some are spring only, and some are both.
 
-Skip.

[adjuster]

Skip, that's the problem with this flawed design.
It will fail and lock the ratchet system to where your wearing out what should take hundreds of thousands of miles in a few seconds.
 
The failures I've seen over the years are generally not related to excessive pressure, but depending on the design, it has happened on various engines. Usually, too high oil pressure on hydraulic piston type adjusters/tensioners causing wear, and the debris can pile up at the oil pick up and create a low oil pressure issue for the whole engine. (Infinity V8's had this problem for example.)
 
Or the nylon 66 used typically for the slider material becomes old, brittle and discolored. It then can fracture and large chunks can break free causing issues. This is common on high mile Audi's using the variable cams, and where they drive the exhaust cams off the intake cam opposite of the timing belt. These are usually in very high mileage cases, or where the vehicle was used in hot climates such as AZ, TX and the desert SouthWest.
 
And you are right, the tick noise is from it being loose, and loose is okay as long as it does not jump teeth on the cam sprockets, or crank drive sprocket. That results in bent valves, and other problems in general.
 
The last revision seems to be working for many folks, the FJ has little issues with this problem compared to the 2014 FZ09's that were plagued by it in many cases.
 
I never posted up much about this until I see folks are starting to have the same issue with the FJ. And that's sad, this is a great engine design with power across the operating range, and a nice light and narrow form factor that makes this the perfect motorcycle engine in my view.
 
I also know Yamaha will never admit there was a problem, but they will replace the CCT if you pester them long enough and are under warranty.
 
It's reality that many folks will be outside the warranty however when this comes calling on them, and the simple fix is to do what nearly every high performance race bike has.
 
A manual cam chain adjuster.
 
Why is that? They don't fail.
 
The non manual, "automatic" ones have a sorted history, not just with Yamaha, but across the spectrum of having failures, noise, wear issues and at high RPM use, the failure when it happens is often the end of that engine. (Thus the reason any serious race prepped engine has a manual adjuster, not the factory oil pressure or gizmo that can fail.)
 
I don't blaze around at peak RPM all day long, but I'd like to know when I do hit the redline on this bike, it's not going to eat the timing chain, lock up and leave me sliding along wondering if I'm going to highside if I pull in the clutch, and try and get out of the way of traffic I just zoomed past.
 
My point is, if you have a CCT failure, and Yamaha says no to replacement under warranty, go buy the cheaper manual adjuster, set it, and virtually forget it for tens of thousands of miles.

[skipperT]

That's fine, I respect your opinion about what to do if a tensioner fails even if I don't agree with installing a manual unit.
 
My issue with your post is (IMHO) you are making something out to be a bigger "problem" then it is, and with you calling it a "failed or flawed design". Ultimately you have no data to back up your opinion - the only company that might would be The Manufacturers themselves. I realize that the Internet and boards like these may have cases documented of someone who had a tensioner fail, or in extreme cases an engine that grenaded because of it (such as yourself). That's not a good representation of accurate data about a model to conclude that it's a "failed and flawed design".
 
All I'm putting out there is that such information can be misleading to someone without a lot of technical expertise. It's also one sided. You don't usually read posts from many happy owners of FZ 09's and FJ 09's who have NEVER had an issue with their bike, or an issue with a cam chain tensioner.
 
The people who have never had an issue don't usually post on the Internet.
 
So I would argue against your opinion that it's a flawed design, and that it's a widespread problem. I don't think that it is.
 
And anyone reading this should take that into consideration, that's all.
 
Skip
 

[kifakw]

I am on the 3rd revision of the CCT; I am hearing this tick noise from the engine recently (I don't know if it is coming from the CCT)
 
On the 2nd revision of the CCT (I believe), the tick noise was as though a metal was inside the engine. And it is coming from the CCT side.
 
Yammie bikes tend to be noisy and comes with all sort of funny noise?

[adjuster]

My FZ1 with the Genesis 5 value was noisy, but nice noises. The FZ09 and FJ09 are a different sound, but that's expected, they are a different engine.
 
Even changes to the same "engine" like stroke distance, longer rods, and valve sizes can all change how they sound. Just as much as muffler/exhaust systems can.
 
As for the CCT, I'm going on the stock one right now, if it makes noise, and it's out of warranty, I have the APR unit I bought for the FZ09 ready to put in there.
 
And can we agree they had a problematic production run on some CCT's?
 
The design might NOT be flawed, but the execution/production of some units was clearly an issue, or they would not be on the 3rd version of the same part number family.

[duhs10]

 
...So, finally bought an [strong]APR[/strong] manual unit...
 
...and there was my [strong]ARP[/strong] in the mail box.

 
I can't find an APR or ARP tensioner.. do you have a link?
 
I did see some APE manual tensioners.

[kemmotar]

I changed my tensioner two days ago. it made some times the rattling noise, sometimes cold sometimes hot. it started at 8500 km. they didnt tighten it. the replacement has an engraved S2 on it.

[adjuster]

Sorry, it's APE. LOL
ARP is bolts/nuts... LOL
 
http://www.aperaceparts.com/tech/tensioners.html
 
On the right side, there is a link on how to install this on an FZ09. Same process on the FJ09, same parts exactly.
 
APE. They make manual CCT for nearly every motorcycle out there, especially the race bikes where you can't have a gizmodo/gadget failure happen at 12k, or the option of high oil pressure causing high wear rates on the slider/chain interface. (On CCT's where it's a oil piston that creates the pressure on the cam chain tensioner. This one on the FZ09/FJ09 is mechanical, the oil just drips back into the sump.)
 
In the case of the FJ09 and FZ09, seems the engine harmonics rattle things around, there is a common issue at certain RPM ranges, where the "Stock" CCT fails, or moves into a loose/un-set point, creating the tick tick tick tick tick noise you can hear.
 
You can remove the set screw and washer, and using an allen wrench, screw the stock CCT back loose till it chatters at idle, and then tighten it up till it's quiet. There is NO WAY to lock down that setting however, it's dependent on the ratchet mechanism to hold at that setting. One run up and down the RPM range, and that might be all it takes to relase the ratchet, and there you go, TICK TICK TICK TICK noise again.
 
As I pointed out, the final 3rd version of the stock CCT seems to have smoother machine work on the internal parts, and that seems to help with function, but you still are counting on a very flimsy little spring steel clip to hold the ratchet mechanism in place. If that stamped and folded spring steel clip fails, and it has in many cases, ESPECIALLY if you tried to put a locking bolt/stud in there to keep the stock CCT from backing off too much, too easy/soon... It's very bad for your engine.
 
This is why Yamaha has a service bulletin out on this very modification. It voids your warranty with Yamaha if they find a locking bolt/stud on your bike.
 
SO, what's to be done? You can replace your failed stock CCT with another and hope it does not fail.
Or you can put a manual unit in, either from Graves, who races Factory Team Yamaha bikes, or from APE, who make just as nice a unit, but don't charge as much for it as Graves. (Funny that Graves, the Yamaha TEAM, uses their own manual CCT in their version of the FZ09....)
Yes, I pointed out this fact to the Yamaha warranty guy, and he had no way to deny it. Why would a FACTORY race team replace such a wonderful unit as the stock CCT if it did not fail or have issues? He had no answer, and like I pointed out, eventually they agreed to warranty my 2014 FZ09 due to the CCT failure.
 
Graves or APE. Both work great. Set it and forget it for 10k or more.

[duhs10]

I'm not having a problem with the chain tensioner.... yet. Was just thinking of being proactive about it. Think I will wait until my year warranty is up or I start hearing the "clack", whichever comes first and then go the route of the manual tensioner.
 
Thanks for the info @adjuster

[stevesweetz]

I've started getting some intermittent cam chain rattle on my 2016
 
800 miles on the bike now and just did the first service last weekend (at 600miles, I put another 200 on during a trip immediately after).
 
Debating on whether I should bother bringing it up with the dealer or just get the APE tensioner and be done with it.

[adjuster]

Have the dealer replace it under warranty.
 
Some folks have had zero problems, so far my FJ09 has been silent on the CCT, but I still have a manual adjuster ready and waiting to replace it in the tool box.