Guest dmizer Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 Starting this again as I discovered something recently, but I'll start with a preface from the old (closed) thread here: http://fj-09.org/thread/488/hard-starting-randomly First of all, there seem to be several kinds of hard starting issues. [ol type=decimal][*]Hard starting when cold. Resolved by cycling the power switch and retrying.[*]Hard starting when cold. Resolved by waiting for the fuel pump to prime and dash to boot.[*]Hard starting when cold. Resolved by turning the key on after switching the kill switch to the "run" position (fuel pump does not prime with the kill switch in the "stop" position).[*]Hard starting when cold. Resolved by continuing to hold the start button until it finally catches.[*]Hard starting when cold or hot. Resolved by adjusting TPS, throttle free play, manipulating the key, or manipulating the throttle in some way.[*]Hard starting when cold. Unresolved by any of the above actions.[*]Hard starting when hot, as when refueling after 40 minutes+ of riding. Unresolved, occurs on other models.[/ol] Up until recently, I was only experiencing a hard starting when hot (point 7). This remains unresolved and is quite troublesome. However, I'd like to address point 6, since I finally had this happen to me several times. My usual routine for turning the bike off is to turn the kill switch off, then turn the key off. Which, perhaps interestingly, is how the motorcycle riding schools teach you how to do things here in Japan, so it became habit. However, I recently added electric heated gloves, and have occasionally decided to turn the bike off with the key instead of the kill switch in order to prevent the gloves from drawing current when the bike is not running but still powered on. My start routine hasn't changed: kill switch from "stop" to "run", key to the on position, wait for the pump to prime and the dash to fully boot. Start the bike. Several times I have experienced a hard starting when cold issue, and I noticed that every time I had this issue was when I turned the bike off with the key instead of using the kill switch. It doesn't happen every time I use the key to turn the bike off, but it does only happen when I use the key to turn the bike off. So, if solutions mentioned in points 1 through 5 don't help your cold starting issue, I suggest changing your power off procedure to kill switch first, then key off. Be aware though, that you do have to switch the kill switch to the "run" position before you turn the key on, otherwise the fuel pump won't prime and the bike may not start. Sorry to bring this up again, but I felt that my experience with this issue may shed some light on a routine that has the potential for resolving the issue for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member michael Posted February 27, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted February 27, 2016 My bike is not currently rideable because the forks are off on their grand round trip journey to Traxxion Dynamics having their innards replaced. While it is down I used the opportunity to have 2WheelDynoWorks flash my ECU. Prior to the ECU flash the bike had gotten to the point where it had this hard starting problem under all conditions, probably 2/3 of the time. Since the ECU flash I have started the engine about 20 times. I virtually never stop the engine with the run/stop switch, my habit is to turn it off with the key. Not a single hard starting incident since the flash. Instant starts every single time just as a properly functioning EFI engine should do. Now I have not ridden the bike and gotten it fully warmed up (I am not good enough at wheelies to do that without forks installed on the bike), so I am not yet able to test it under all conditions. But even without that, I wonder if there may have been a positive change in this behavior as a result of the ECU flash, as previously those 20 starts would have resulted in failure to start at least half the time. Later today I will start it and let it run until fully up to normal operating temp and then try the restart stuff several times and will report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member michael Posted February 27, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted February 27, 2016 More testing. I started the engine and let it idle while I did some yard work for about an hour. It was at 194F when I shut it off. Tried a restart... instant restart. Left it off for five minutes, simulating a gas stop... instant restart. Let it sit for 1/2 hour, simulating a lunch stop. Instant restart. I have started it a bunch more times, probably more than 30 times, and not a single bobble or failure to start. Actually riding it and restarting it will be the final proof, but I won't be able to do that for probably another 2-3 weeks. BTW the deep rumble of that Graves exhaust sounds really great. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsimple Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 It sounds like Michael may be reaching a state of enlighten.... errr... satisfaction 2015 Red FJ 09 2013 WR250R - little boy blue - sold 2012 DL650 V Strom - sold 2007 FZ6 - sold 1986 FJ600 - sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member michael Posted February 27, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted February 27, 2016 It sounds like Michael may be reaching a state of enlighten.... errr... satisfaction Sure, just spend 40% of the price of the bike fixing it, and it gets better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docsimple Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 what else is money for? 2015 Red FJ 09 2013 WR250R - little boy blue - sold 2012 DL650 V Strom - sold 2007 FZ6 - sold 1986 FJ600 - sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dmizer Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 While it is down I used the opportunity to have 2WheelDynoWorks flash my ECU. Others have suggested that an ECU flash might be a potential fix, but I never saw anyone with the problem claim that a flash fixed it, only someone with the problem still occurring even after a flash. Please return with an update once you've been out riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member michael Posted February 28, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted February 28, 2016 While it is down I used the opportunity to have 2WheelDynoWorks flash my ECU.Please return with an update once you've been out riding. You can count on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldfart Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 I had the ECU flashed at Two Wheel Dynoworks months ago and can assure you that the hard start is NOT cured by the ECU reflash. In fact, mine only began hard-starting a few months after the flash. I've asked Nel's for his thoughts on this (again, it has nothing to do with the flash but maybe he has some ideas/thoughts on the subject). I'll let everybody know what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member michael Posted February 28, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted February 28, 2016 OK. I was just reporting what I have found so far. I have now started it about 50 times since the flash without a single less than perfect start. Who knows with Yamaha. Could have been something as simple as the ECU not being plugged in properly and now it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member stealth09 Posted February 28, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted February 28, 2016 I had the ECU flashed at Two Wheel Dynoworks months ago and can assure you that the hard start is NOT cured by the ECU reflash. In fact, mine only began hard-starting a few months after the flash. I've asked Nel's for his thoughts on this (again, it has nothing to do with the flash but maybe he has some ideas/thoughts on the subject). I'll let everybody know what he says. Exactly my observation after having my ecu flashed. Mine has difficulty starting after a ride where the bike is fully warmed up and then sits in the sun for a 1/2 hour or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member michael Posted February 29, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted February 29, 2016 I will test that as soon as I can. Wish I had not mentioned my findings. I won't discuss it further until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member stealth09 Posted February 29, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted February 29, 2016 I will test that as soon as I can. Wish I had not mentioned my findings. I won't discuss it further until then. My post was not intended to discount your testing. There seems to be a fairly wide range of conditions in which these bikes display a stubborn streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dmizer Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 ... the hard start is NOT cured by the ECU reflash. With the range of confirmed fixes for this issue, I think we're looking at a symptom with multiple causes, so while your symptom is not cured by the ECU flash, it's entirely possible that someone else's is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldfart Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 With due respect, there are no confirmed fixes for this issue. Only ways to deal with it, i.e. open throttle starting, holding the start button until it starts, etc. None of which "fixes" the issue, only circumvents it. Yamaha needs to fix this problem so that the bike starts when you push the starter, like it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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