Strange noise coming from engine ! FJ-09 Cam Chain

[clint]

I was led to believe from previous posts that the cam tensioner is not operated hydraulically on this model.  Some clarification from a reliable technical source would be greatly appreciated.  I am interested in purchasing an FJ09, and am concerned that this is a major mechanical issue.  My experience with this type of tensioner is very limited.  I have driven Honda Goldwings since 1980 and have not experienced any issues re: cam tensioners.  If this is a long time issue that is not being addressed by Yamaha, then I think I would wait to buy one until they seek a reliable solution. 

Happens rarely...seriously. "major mechanical issue", not. Having a final drive failure is a major mechanical issue. Anyone who has reported a "noisy" CCT had it replaced under warranty by their dealer with a new revision and fixed.  
Seriously, this was reported more on the previous years FZ-09. The FJs have been very rare. Absolute worst case scenario, it gets noisy out of warranty, you purchase an APE CCT and problem solved. Much ado about nothing. Delaying your purchase only robs you of months of incredible FJ-09 fun!

[Guest dmizer]

I was led to believe from previous posts that the cam tensioner is not operated hydraulically on this model.  Some clarification from a reliable technical source would be greatly appreciated.

I posted a picture of the CCT in an engine cutaway on page 4 which shows that the CCT is mechanical, not oil actuated.
 
Furthermore, as I have mentioned a few times, the noise in the video on the first page of this thread is not the CCT, but the clutch basket. The clutch basket on this bike is noisy and people have mistaken it for CCT.

[cosmo]

Thanks for your opinion, but I do not believe in modifying a bike with aftermarket mechanical additives. Farkels yes!

[traceroz]

I was led to believe from previous posts that the cam tensioner is not operated hydraulically on this model.  Some clarification from a reliable technical source would be greatly appreciated.  I am interested in purchasing an FJ09, and am concerned that this is a major mechanical issue.  My experience with this type of tensioner is very limited.  I have driven Honda Goldwings since 1980 and have not experienced any issues re: cam tensioners.  If this is a long time issue that is not being addressed by Yamaha, then I think I would wait to buy one until they seek a reliable solution. 

The CCT is mechanical.  My CC started to rattle intermittently, and the CCT was replaced under warranty, with an improved part.  Yamaha have addressed the issue, and fixed it.  In fact, Yamaha is pretty good at keeping on top of issues, for example the gear selector shaft issue (fixed) and the user comments on the snatchy throttle (IMHO fixed). 
FYI, Goldwings have timing belts, not chains.

[barbarrino]

Hey everyone, so I was having the same sounds a week ago on my 2015 FJ-09 with 3800 miles on it. So I asked my shop to do the service and check it out. They said they "adjusted it" based on Yamaha's recommendation but when I got it back it had changed. When I dropped it off it made the sound at idle now it makes an even stranger sound at 3000 to 4000 RPM. I took it back to the shop and they are going to work with Yamaha on it.
 
Old sound was a metal bouncing around sound at idle and a bit of "metal through being forced against something sound" at certain RPMS.
 
New sound is just the "metal being forced sound" but it is louder and more obvious than before at 3k to 4k RPM, sound changes with RPM speed.
 
I will let you guys know what I find out.

[traceroz]

Hey everyone, so I was having the same sounds a week ago on my 2015 FJ-09 with 3800 miles on it. So I asked my shop to do the service and check it out. They said they "adjusted it" based on Yamaha's recommendation but when I got it back it had changed. When I dropped it off it made the sound at idle now it makes an even stranger sound at 3000 to 4000 RPM. I took it back to the shop and they are going to work with Yamaha on it.  
Old sound was a metal bouncing around sound at idle and a bit of "metal through being forced against something sound" at certain RPMS.
 
New sound is just the "metal being forced sound" but it is louder and more obvious than before at 3k to 4k RPM, sound changes with RPM speed.
 
I will let you guys know what I find out.

Tell them to change to the new tensioner. Yamaha know of the issue with some tensioners, and should comp the replacement.  If your engine has the sump plug on the bottom, more than likely it is in the "pre improved tensioner" production run.

[bgigharbor]

I bought a 2016 and after about 50 miles it now has a very loud squealing sound that seems to get better (or at least intermittent) after maybe 15 minutes of running it.
 
Didn't do it new and the demo bike didn't do it either. I find it very annoying (even with earplugs) and actually don't think I would have bought the bike if I had heard that sound before I bought it. I keep hoping I will learn to ignore it, but it's crazy loud esp when the bike is idling.
 
You can hear it anywhere inside the house (not the exhaust sound, just the squealing sound) when I start it out front of the house to warm it up a bit before driving.
 
I had dealer listen to it at the 600 mile service but naturally they declared it normal even though their demo bike doesn't do it. But again he said Yamaha is really reluctant to pay on most warranty work and on an fz09 that had a super bad cam tensioner it was a battle with Yamaha to get it covered under warranty.
 
 

[wessie]

I bought a 2016 and after about 50 miles it now has a very loud squealing sound that seems to get better (or at least intermittent) after maybe 15 minutes of running it.  
Didn't do it new and the demo bike didn't do it either. I find it very annoying (even with earplugs) and actually don't think I would have bought the bike if I had heard that sound before I bought it. I keep hoping I will learn to ignore it, but it's crazy loud esp when the bike is idling.
 
You can hear it anywhere inside the house (not the exhaust sound, just the squealing sound) when I start it out front of the house to warm it up a bit before driving.
 
I had dealer listen to it at the 600 mile service but naturally they declared it normal even though their demo bike doesn't do it. But again he said Yamaha is really reluctant to pay on most warranty work and on an fz09 that had a super bad cam tensioner it was a battle with Yamaha to get it covered under warranty.
 

 
this sounds more like the clutch whine/rattle - does the noise lower in intensity if you pull the clutch in? My theory is that after 15 mins the oil that the clutch sits in warms up and the noise then goes.
 
 

[bgigharbor]

Does not seem to be related to clutch as far as I can tell.  I checked that out after I read some posts suggesting that.
 
Pulling in clutch makes no difference in this sound, for example. Clutch does have a slight rattle, but nothing I would notice esp with earplugs. And this sound I would call more of a squealing.
 
My next oil change might be with synthetic oil just to see if it changes that sound.
 
The sound went from not noticeable to very loud somewhere in that first 65 miles and I think maybe is even slightly louder (esp when cold) now at 1200 miles.  I really hate the sound and might not even keep the bike long term, but the motor is so fun I am really trying to just live with it.
 
But it sure has dampened my joy of ownership......Sometimes I ride my RT instead just because I can't face hearing that squeal.
 
edit: but I still have to say what a fun motor.  I had to have surgery and can't ride for another month or more but one of my brothers was visiting here and took the fj for a ride.  He was pretty amazed by the eagerness of the motor as well.  he's probably logged about half a million miles over the years including a trip from canada to the tip of south american and back.  So whereas I would love to see a version of a bike with that motor like a f800gt (fully faired), he likes the idea of a more adventure style bike with that motor.  Light and peppy.  I don't see how they could get enough ground clearance, myself.
 
 
 

[xlxr]

600 miles on my 2015 FJ 09 and the cam chain noise started to be very noticeable.  No noise when engine is cold, constant noise when engine is warmed up.  Seems like clutch basket noise is also there because pulling in the clutch does seem to change the noise.  But I guess no way to tell for sure which is what. 
 
There is a CCT adjustment in the Yamaha service manual.   My dealer said 2 hours and $200 labor just to remove and replace the CCT.  But "noise" is not covered by warranty.  The only reason I don't replace it with APE unit is fear of voiding warranty. 
 
To be clear, the 2016 CCT still has the same noise problems, and the adjustment procedure doesn't fix the problem, correct? Some guys say yes, others say no.
 
I put in a magnetic oil drain plug. Has anyone used a magnetic drain plug to see if metal chips start appearing when the noise gets bad? Is there anyway to check for chain guide plastic showing up in the oil?
 
 
 
 

[clint]

600 miles on my 2015 FJ 09 and the cam chain noise started to be very noticeable.  No noise when engine is cold, constant noise when engine is warmed up.  Seems like clutch basket noise is also there because pulling in the clutch does seem to change the noise.  But I guess no way to tell for sure which is what.   
There is a CCT adjustment in the Yamaha service manual.   My dealer said 2 hours and $200 labor just to remove and replace the CCT.  But "noise" is not covered by warranty.  The only reason I don't replace it with APE unit is fear of voiding warranty. 
 
To be clear, the 2016 CCT still has the same noise problems, and the adjustment procedure doesn't fix the problem, correct? Some guys say yes, others say no.
 
I put in a magnetic oil drain plug. Has anyone used a magnetic drain plug to see if metal chips start appearing when the noise gets bad? Is there anyway to check for chain guide plastic showing up in the oil?
 
 
 

Your dealer is full of $hit!  
That "noise" is EXACTLY the symptom of a failing CCT! Others have had theirs replaced by Yamaha under warranty because of the NOISE. Yamaha has issued several revisions of the CCT so yours might not be the latest. Regardless, YOU should call Yamaha corporate and explain your situation. Do NOT go quietly into that good night sir! 

[xlxr]

Why bother with the dealer if the updated CCT does not fix the problem on a long term basis? I am not sure their is any consensus on that question. I'll call Yamaha corporate on Monday, give them one chance.

[xlxr]

After spending all my free time reading up on this CCT problem, I came to two conclusions. I am not going to even start my engine again with the stock CCT. APE manual CCT should be here tomorrow. Next conclusion is that I do not want the Yamaha CCT on my engine even it is free. I would rather spend $100, fix it myself, adjust it as needed, and never have to worry about it again. I plan on keeping my bike long after the warranty runs out. The APE website page about cam tensioners has several links to installation on several different bikes, including FZ 09, definitely go there and look at the pictures.
 
There has been some debate over how the chain can make such a awful noise when it runs on nylon guides. I assume the noise is not caused by the chain itself, but by the loose chain slapping the metal guide back and forth against the CCT mechanism, which is actually causing the noise. I found another website with pics of the threads on the stock CCT getting chewed up. That will put small metal particles in the oil. If you insist on running a noisy CCT, get a magnetic drain plug to keep track how much metal is getting in your oil.
 
Another question is how tight the manual CCT should be. I put my bike in first gear and pushed it forward and felt a bit more slack in the upper run of the chain. Then I rolled the bike backwards and felt the upper run of the chain tighten up. I did this just to get a feel of chain tension. Part of the instructions were to turn the engine over by hand to do the same thing, get slack in the upper run of the chain before pulling out the CCT. (I hope I got that right, double check on your own.)
 
I lined up the arrow shaped timing mark to be on the safe side. I let it sit there awhile to make sure the engine would not spin by itself and put slack in the chain while I had the CCT out.
 
One other guy mentioned using plastic zip ties to hold the chain in place so it does not slip off the gears. I looped one zip tie around the upper chain and guide rail and pulled it tight with a second zip tie looped through the first. Then I installed one of the cover bolts at the bottom and looped the second zip tie to that bolt and pulled it tight to hold the chain in place by pulling the slack out of it. I found a plastic coated handle of T handle allen wrench fit perfectly between the upper chain guide and case to also hold the chain in place. I then used zip ties between the two bolts on either side of the T handle to hold it in place. Simply cannot be too careful with not allowing chain to slip.
 
Another problem some guys reported is having difficulty screwing in the new CCT bolts and getting them to seat properly. Some guys suspect this was because of thread locking compound left behind when removing the stock bolts. I suspect part of the problem is trying to remove the original bolts with tension on the CCT may cause the last thread holding the bolt to strip out. I am going to try and use the 3 mm allen wrench in the center hole to release all pressure on the spring before I remove the bolts. I don't know if this will make a difference or not. Part of the installation instructions is to back off the manual CCT bolt so it does not contact the chain guide before the mounting bolts are fully seated. Another idea is to lube up the seal in the manual CCT and run the bolt back and forth a few times to loosen it up so you can feel when it starts to touch the chain guide. I plan on keeping one finger on the chain guide to see if I can feel it move as I screw down the bolt.
 
Next suggestion I have, if the gasket for the side cover stays intact, coat it with a light coat of grease before you put the side cover back on. That will prevent the gasket from sticking to the side cover and you will be able to remove the side cover as much as you need to without damaging the gasket.
 
That's all I have figured out for now.

[omniphil]

The CCT is mechanical.  My CC started to rattle intermittently, and the CCT was replaced under warranty, with an improved part.  Yamaha have addressed the issue, and fixed it.  In fact, Yamaha is pretty good at keeping on top of issues, for example the gear selector shaft issue (fixed) and the user comments on the snatchy throttle (IMHO fixed).

What has been done to fix the snatchy throttle? I wasn't aware of that one? 
 
 

[clint]

After spending all my free time reading up on this CCT problem, I came to two conclusions. I am not going to even start my engine again with the stock CCT. APE manual CCT should be here tomorrow. Next conclusion is that I do not want the Yamaha CCT on my engine even it is free. I would rather spend $100, fix it myself, adjust it as needed, and never have to worry about it again. I plan on keeping my bike long after the warranty runs out. The APE website page about cam tensioners has several links to installation on several different bikes, including FZ 09, definitely go there and look at the pictures.  

I agree 100% with everything you've said. Lot's of information on another board for the FZ-09 that shows the APE install on the CP-3 engine.  That being said, my OEM CCT has been perfectly silent for over 10K miles now. (looking for wood to knock on). But I would not hesitate to order the APE CCT at the slightest hint of noise. Everyone who has done it says "Set it and forget it...done".