Fixing the FJ-09 Achilles Heel - Oil Drain Plug

[redfjniner]

[redfjniner]

Forget that post.
I have discussed this with my mechanic and he doesn't see any problem. He is thinking that a torque should be 14-17 lbs.  Will wait to see what the Mazda plug looks like and what kind of seal it uses.  Got lots of time as I just changed my oil last week and it will take a few more weeks to log another 4K.
Note: HD uses O-rings. If they don't vibrate out of an HD, .....................?
No part number on the drain plug???  It came out of a box, the box had numbers but I didn't note them.  It stated the size as M10 x 1.5.  I'm not sure that is even the size needed but it looks right.  You know if it doesn't go in with using your fingers, it is the wrong size.   The o-ring is glued to the bolt flange and is in a slight recess.

[redfjniner]

I made this statement earlier about over tightening the drain plug. CAUTION: It has been posted on the FJR Forum many times that the threads have been stripped in the aluminum oil pan at the drain plug by torqueing it to the recommended 31#. Hand tight with a short wrench or socket wrench is good enough or 24-27 ft. lbs. This is why this alternative is also a good idea. If it works.

[ULEWZ]

I made this statement earlier about over tightening the drain plug. CAUTION: It has been posted on the FJR Forum many times that the threads have been stripped in the aluminum oil pan at the drain plug by torqueing it to the recommended 31#. Hand tight with a short wrench or socket wrench is good enough or 24-27 ft. lbs. This is why this alternative is also a good idea. If it works.

Time will tell. Please install it and let us know how it goes the succeeding time. That will be the real test. Putting it on is not so much the problem as I see it (yes there is the potential to strip the threads during install), as getting it off. I always use German torque on my drain plugs, and they still sometimes stick. I don't see the gasket as being the problem, just the inevitable stripping of the internal wrenching socket if it gets stuck. Then you will need a nice pair of vice grips to get it off.
 

[Tracerforme]

Gents,
the o-ring option is fine to use too.
The o-ring is simply crushed within the groove to seal against the oil pan sealing face as would a crush washer. And, as long as the diameter of the o-ring matches the sealing face diameter of the pan. The torque applied to that torx head bolt is the key. It wouldn't require much.
The shoulder of the bolt will bottom out on the face of the oil pan sealing face and friction is stopping it from backing out... as is 3lts or so of oil on your rear tyre!
 
Until I get this bike... I will be making this modification using the crush washer option first since it is exactly what the original bolt uses. The main important modification is removing the ramp cast on to the pan.
 
Cheers,
Steve

[redfjniner]

I had a GM auto that used a T50 on the front brakes and found the Torx type attachment quite durable in that almost impossible to brake loose situation.  So I Googled this:
Typical Dimensional & Torque Specifications of TORX Tools
For use with Internal Socket Head Type TORX Screws    
       
TORX Point to Point Approximate Dimensions
T-Size Inch Metric Maximum Torque
 
T20 .151" 3.86 mm 10.5 N m
T25 .173" 4.43 mm 15.9 N m
T27 .195" 4.99 mm 22.5 N m
T30 .216" 5.52 mm 31.1 N m
T40 .260" 6.65 mm 54.1 N m
T45 .306" 7.82 mm 86.2 N m 63.4 Ft. lbs
If the working max. is 63 ft. lbs and we may only be torqueing it down to 14-17 ft. lbs., I would think that the Torx head should be quite adequate.
    
   
 

[ULEWZ]

I had a GM auto that used a T50 on the front brakes and found the Torx type attachment quite durable in that almost impossible to brake loose situation.  So I Googled this: Typical Dimensional & Torque Specifications of TORX Tools
For use with Internal Socket Head Type TORX Screws    
       
TORX Point to Point Approximate Dimensions
T-Size Inch Metric Maximum Torque
 
T20 .151" 3.86 mm 10.5 N m
T25 .173" 4.43 mm 15.9 N m
T27 .195" 4.99 mm 22.5 N m
T30 .216" 5.52 mm 31.1 N m
T40 .260" 6.65 mm 54.1 N m
T45 .306" 7.82 mm 86.2 N m 63.4 Ft. lbs
If the working max. is 63 ft. lbs and we may only be torqueing it down to 14-17 ft. lbs., I would think that the Torx head should be quite adequate.
    
   

Ah, that elusive torx bit that inhabits the bottom of my tool box somewhere. I will stick to the allen head Mazda drain plug that is readily available. Only $8, so I can be a sport.  

[panooch]

ULEWZ,
Any updates on how this Mazda FS50-21-249 low profile oil plug worked out?

[b12ty]

ULEWZ, Any updates on how this Mazda FS50-21-249 low profile oil plug worked out?

 
You can see my thread on Mazda plug install here. link
 
Didn't have any problems, but as noted make sure you don't overtighten. Have yet to change oil again. Another thing it does help is if you ever have to remove the exhaust system. More clearance!
 
 
Ty
 

[michel]

Installed the mazda oil drain plug today and cut the guard fin cast . Very easy job to do for peace of mind.
 

[Guest bmidd]

I wish they would have used M14x1.5 like EVERY Yamaha sport bike uses...I have a couple of leftover Pro-Bolt Titanium sump bolts with magnetic ends.

[sareis]

Forget that post. I have discussed this with my mechanic and he doesn't see any problem. He is thinking that a torque should be 14-17 lbs.  Will wait to see what the Mazda plug looks like and what kind of seal it uses.  Got lots of time as I just changed my oil last week and it will take a few more weeks to log another 4K.
Note: HD uses O-rings. If they don't vibrate out of an HD, .....................?
No part number on the drain plug???  It came out of a box, the box had numbers but I didn't note them.  It stated the size as M10 x 1.5.  I'm not sure that is even the size needed but it looks right.  You know if it doesn't go in with using your fingers, it is the wrong size.   The o-ring is glued to the bolt flange and is in a slight recess.

HD suggests using LOCTITE 565 THREAD SEALANT and torque it to 26 to 29 lbs.
 

[redfjniner]

Forget that post. I have discussed this with my mechanic and he doesn't see any problem. He is thinking that a torque should be 14-17 lbs.  Will wait to see what the Mazda plug looks like and what kind of seal it uses.  Got lots of time as I just changed my oil last week and it will take a few more weeks to log another 4K.
Note: HD uses O-rings. If they don't vibrate out of an HD, .....................?

HD suggests using LOCTITE 565 THREAD SEALANT and torque it to 26 to 29 lbs.

Saries:  Please clarify on the HD drain plug.  Are you refering to a plug that uses an rubber O-ring glued to the bolt?  I would use 26-29 on an compressible washer or copper or alum. normally.   I would think that that torque high of torque would be too much on an O-ring and make it un-servicable later.  I currently have it installed on the FJ and it seams to be  working and holding just fine.

[sareis]

HD suggests using LOCTITE 565 THREAD SEALANT and torque it to 26 to 29 lbs.

Saries:  Please clarify on the HD drain plug.  Are you refering to a plug that uses an rubber O-ring glued to the bolt?  I would use 26-29 on an compressible washer or copper or alum. normally.   I would think that that torque high of torque would be too much on an O-ring and make it un-servicable later.  I currently have it installed on the FJ and it seams to be  working and holding just fine.

Let me eloaborate a little on this.  
I have had two Buells both 1200cc. I checked the manual on the torque specs for the 2009 XB12R.
 
For the Primary (Trans):
1. Wipe any foreign material from the magnetic drain plug,
inspect/replace o-ring and apply LOCTITE 565 THREAD
SEALANT. Reinstall plug and tighten to 14-30 ft-lbs (19-
41 Nm).
 
For the Oil (In the swingarm):
1. Inspect drain plug O-ring for tears or damage. Replace if
required. Wipe any foreign material from drain plug.
2. Apply LOCTITE 565 THREAD SEALANT, reinstall plug
and tighten to 26-29 ft-lbs (35-39 Nm).
 
Both drain plugs were the same size and had replaceable o-rings. I replaced them every other oil change.
 
HTH
 
Sean
 
 

[redfjniner]

Sean
I just went to a Buell site and read up on drain plug problems with over tightening the plugs. Seams to be the same issue that we have experienced with Yamaha's spec. of 31 ft. lbs. In short some were recommending that 16 ft. lbs be used on the Buell while using the stock set up of bolt with rubber O-ring. Note that if you use any thread sealant and tighten with a torque wrench, that you will be tightening more than the torque is showing on the wrench. Also (for others) note that by not cleaning the oil off the threads in the pan and on the bolts that you will over tighten the bolt if you use the Yamaha spec of 31 ft. lbs. 26-27 would be safe and more accurately in line with Mfrs recommendations of 31. I repeat this every chance I get as it seams to be a continuous problem, and new people to these bikes, end up stripping out the aluminium threads in the pans by tightening with a torque wrench to mfr's spec of 31 ft lbs.