skipperT Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I'm surprised the TB were being synced at idle. On carbies we'd put at least 2000 RPM on the engine since idle was notoriously unstable. Unfortunately I don't think there is a fast-idle switch on the ECU? We also tuned it with the motor at close to operating temp. Fast idle IS controlled by the ECM, it simply tells the servo motor to open the throttle butterflies a bit more, increasing the idle speed for warm-up by bleeding in a bit more air. No adjustment like in older open loop FI models, i.e. GSX-R's and 'busa's. Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlxr Posted September 22, 2016 Author Share Posted September 22, 2016 The problem I am trying to figure out how to fix is not actual idle rpm, hot or cold, but a "snatchy throttle" at throttle roll-on from idle to about 1/8 (maybe less) throttle movement, but only in A mode before and after reflash by 2WDW. Apparently, this is caused by throttle valves opening too soon, or too far, or too fast just off idle. Apparently, ECU programming, throttle valve synch, electronic adjustment of throttle position sensor, acceleration position sensor, and probably engine valve adjustment, timing, air density and temperature all have some effect. Apparently, this is a sensitive adjustment which Yamaha does not always get right from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member DavidS Posted September 22, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted September 22, 2016 The problem I am trying to figure out how to fix is not actual idle rpm, hot or cold, but a "snatchy throttle" at throttle roll-on from idle to about 1/8 (maybe less) throttle movement, but only in A mode before and after reflash by 2WDW. Apparently, this is caused by throttle valves opening too soon, or too far, or too fast just off idle. Apparently, ECU programming, throttle valve synch, electronic adjustment of throttle position sensor, acceleration position sensor, and probably engine valve adjustment, timing, air density and temperature all have some effect. Apparently, this is a sensitive adjustment which Yamaha does not always get right from the factory. Have you had your ECU flashed? I had that problem before my flash, but that is one of the things Nels fixes with his flash at 2WheelDyno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Yes @David, @xlxr is experiencing 'snatch' before and after a 2WDW flash - or that's how I parsed that sentence. I rode a similarly flashed bike this weekend and it too was a bit more choppy in 'STD' than I consider acceptable but as I detailed there were some other confounding factors. In 'A' the snatch was much minimized but I also had 20 more minutes of experience adapting to that bike's setup. It also vibrated a LOT at 4-5K rpm. My only previous Triple experience was a Triumph 885 (94-96) and it was butter smooth, so I don't know why this one felt so "busy". I test rode a new Monster 1200 this morning and it's FI wasn't perfect (hunts at small throttle) but impressive none-the-less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suncoaster Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 What octane rated fuel are you running ? I run 98 RON and the stock ECU throttle response is smooth as silk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlxr Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 Yes @david , @xlxr is experiencing 'snatch' before and after a 2WDW flash - or that's how I parsed that sentence. I rode a similarly flashed bike this weekend and it too was a bit more choppy in 'STD' than I consider acceptable but as I detailed there were some other confounding factors. In 'A' the snatch was much minimized but I also had 20 more minutes of experience adapting to that bike's setup. It also vibrated a LOT at 4-5K rpm. My only previous Triple experience was a Triumph 885 (94-96) and it was butter smooth, so I don't know why this one felt so "busy". I test rode a new Monster 1200 this morning and it's FI wasn't perfect (hunts at small throttle) but impressive none-the-less. It is these type of inconsistent reports that make me wonder how much fine tuning throttle valves and sensors contribute to this inconsistency. I live in Southern California which, I think, has it's own formulations for gas. I run 91 octane, which is all I can get at the pump. I think it has 10% alcohol. 2WDW did reflash my ECU. In B mode, off idle throttle is completely smooth, absolutely no snatchy throttle feeling. STD mode has a little more snatchy throttle, and A mode even more. However, in all modes, once I get off idle, engine runs great from idle rpm to red line. Engine vibration got less and less as I got up to 5,000 miles on the bike. After installing Vibranators in the handle bars, vibration is not an issue, at any rpm. Before Vibranators, engine was very smooth at 4 to 5,000 rpm's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
250bultaco Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Yes @david , @xlxr is experiencing 'snatch' before and after a 2WDW flash - or that's how I parsed that sentence. I rode a similarly flashed bike this weekend and it too was a bit more choppy in 'STD' than I consider acceptable but as I detailed there were some other confounding factors. In 'A' the snatch was much minimized but I also had 20 more minutes of experience adapting to that bike's setup. It also vibrated a LOT at 4-5K rpm. My only previous Triple experience was a Triumph 885 (94-96) and it was butter smooth, so I don't know why this one felt so "busy". I test rode a new Monster 1200 this morning and it's FI wasn't perfect (hunts at small throttle) but impressive none-the-less. It is these type of inconsistent reports that make me wonder how much fine tuning throttle valves and sensors contribute to this inconsistency. I live in Southern California which, I think, has it's own formulations for gas. I run 91 octane, which is all I can get at the pump. I think it has 10% alcohol. 2WDW did reflash my ECU. In B mode, off idle throttle is completely smooth, absolutely no snatchy throttle feeling. STD mode has a little more snatchy throttle, and A mode even more. However, in all modes, once I get off idle, engine runs great from idle rpm to red line. Engine vibration got less and less as I got up to 5,000 miles on the bike. After installing Vibranators in the handle bars, vibration is not an issue, at any rpm. Before Vibranators, engine was very smooth at 4 to 5,000 rpm's. I've used Vibranators on previous bikes and they worked as advertised. I've been considering them for my FJ. Are you able to retain the stock hand guards with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlxr Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 FWIW, I now have another 1,000 miles on the bike, 6,000 total, since I started this thread and it seems like idle is getting a less smooth. Not much, just enough to notice. I hope to find the time to get the re-synch and throttle sensor adjustment done in the next month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 1moreroad Posted October 29, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 29, 2016 Dealer did the TBS yesterday (+ new plugs) at 9000 miles. All in sync. Didn't notice any rough running prior to the TBS. Unfortunately, all their CCT kits were used up by other FZ/FJ owners. Yamaha is telling them 1 - 2 weeks for kit 1. But that's what Yamaha always seems to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlxr Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 Why new plugs at 9,000 miles or throttle body sync if not running rough? How many miles should the stock plugs go before needing changing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlxr Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 I can't remember for sure, Irridium plugs may go 100K miles, but cheaper plugs will not. What kind of plugs in FJ O9? I'll have to check manual, but I think 26,000 miles recommended on valve adjustment, and that is something you really do want to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 1moreroad Posted October 30, 2016 Premium Member Share Posted October 30, 2016 Plugs recommended at 8,000 miles. TBS called for at 600 miles so I'm hardly doing early service. My Ninja called for valve checks every 6000 and needed valve adjustments about every 3rd check. 100k would be nice but unlikely on a high performance engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlxr Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Official Yamaha manual says replace plugs at 8,000 miles. Check valves at 26,600 miles. That means throttle body resync is going to wait for another 2,000 miles. I have no desire to take the tank off twice. http://www.sparkplug-crossreference.com/convert/NGK_PN/CPR9EA-9 I really would like to find a 100,000 mile spark plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmiller Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 The plugs will go way longer than 8,000 miles, especially iridium or platinum. But you're forgetting about checking the gap of your plugs, which will change on any plug regardless over 8-10K. If you're going to pull the plugs to check the gap (like you should) you might as well just replace the plug while you are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlxr Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 I have two cars, Honda with 60,000 miles, Altima with 90,000 on stock plugs. I think both need changing at that those intervals according to manual. I have not pulled the plugs to regap them. Both run good and gas mileage is the same as new, so re-gap is not necessary on high mileage plug designs. But it really makes me wonder if Yamaha has a reason for 8,000 mile plug change interval. Yamaha manual says throttle body resynch every 4,000 miles, I'll stretch that to 8,000 miles and probably replace the plugs at the same time, just to not have to have any conflicts with warranty and reduce number of times I have to take the bike apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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