How bad does engine run before throttle body re-synch?

[xlxr]

I searched and found a thread that said there is a NGK Iridium plug available, but now I can't find it.

[otaylor38]

The plugs will go way longer than 8,000 miles, especially iridium or platinum. But you're forgetting about checking the gap of your plugs, which will change on any plug regardless over 8-10K. If you're going to pull the plugs to check the gap (like you should) you might as well just replace the plug while you are there.

completely agree. This is what i do.  
If i plan to take the plugs out i'll order/buy a new set before i start. They're only a few quid each and i feel its a better job to just replace them whilst going to the hassle. 
 
 
 
 

[xlxr]

http://fj-09.org/thread/2517/ngk-iridium-spark-plugs
 
Here is link to thread about NGK Irridium plugs for FJ 09.

[pattonme]

in USA bikes average barely 3K miles a year so 8K miles means 3 seasons of use give or take. 3 years is a reasonable amount of time to go before a quick poke around the top and make sure things are still good. Car engines barely turn 1/2 the speed as motorcycle so stress levels are completely different.
 
If you're the kind that puts 10K miles on a bike in a year, then I wouldn't worry so much. just do the plugs every spring and be happy. What do they cost, $4 each, $8 for the fancy ones? I mean come on... Have you priced tires lately? The cost/hr of operation for tires is ridiculous by comparison.

[sunshine]

in USA bikes average barely 3K miles a year so 8K miles means 3 seasons of use give or take. 3 years is a reasonable amount of time to go before a quick poke around the top and make sure things are still good. Car engines barely turn 1/2 the speed as motorcycle so stress levels are completely different. 
If you're the kind that puts 10K miles on a bike in a year, then I wouldn't worry so much. just do the plugs every spring and be happy. What do they cost, $4 each, $8 for the fancy ones? I mean come on... Have you priced tires lately? The cost/hr of operation for tires is ridiculous by comparison.

I've had my bike for almost exactly a month and have almost 2k miles on the ODO. I must be doing it wrong.  

[xlxr]

I had 2WDW reflash ECU when bike was new, everything else is stock. 6,900 miles on my bike now, and finally did throttle body synch for the first time since new. Idle was getting a little rough, nothing serious, just enough to notice. Engine ran great off idle, gas mileage was 44 to 45 mpg, a mpg or two better than new, but varies with aggressive throttle management. I also installed new stock NGK spark plugs. Original plugs still looked like they had a lot more miles left on them.  The only real reason I did it at 6,900 miles was a week of rainy weather. Afterwards, engine did run smoother, enough to notice.
 
I also adjusted accelerator position sensor per manual instructions, which were not entirely clear to me, and I may not have done it correctly. The manual says to adjust idle and full throttle position at both mode numbers 14 and 15 and that you should go back and forth between modes 14 and 15 a few times. I am not sure which mode I was in when I adjusted it. I never could get the ranges the manual says, maybe because I was doing it wrong.
 
In stop and go city traffic, the snatchiness of the throttle was reduced in A, STD, and B modes. B mode was really smooth to the point which I felt it would be easy to control on wet, slippery roads. But, I ride in the rain maybe once ever two or three years. STD mode was good for stop and go city traffic riding. A mode snatchiness was a little noticeable in the stop and go city driving, but less than before. I have not been able to test aggressive riding in twisty mountain roads yet, so I am not completely sure if maximum power at full throttle and high rpm has actually been reduced, maybe it has. But the trade-off is a smoother throttle / power curve that is easier to ride, and may actually result in being easier to ride fast / aggressive.
 
The mounting bolts of the accelerator position sensor are fairly easy to loosen / tighten with 8 mm socket on 1/4" drive ratchet with a universal joint. If you are having snatchy throttle problems, might as well try adjusting the accelerator position sensor. You will need the manual.

[1moreroad]

I did throttle sync and plugs at about ~ 9000 miles and couldn't feel any difference in operation. Per the dealership, sync was close (can't remember the amount they told me). In comparison, Kev's O2 controller had a HUGE effect on smoothness near idle.

[xlxr]

I finally got free time and good weather to test ride on my favorite twisty mountain roads after new spark plugs, throttle body synch and adjusting accelerator position sensor. Since the spark plugs looked good and throttle bodies were not off by much, I have to assume the big improvement was due to accelerator position sensor adjustment.
 
The improvement in throttle control and reduction of snatchy throttle was HUGE. I can now ride comfortably in A mode at all times, before I would always switch to B mode. I am not sure if total power at high RPMs is reduced or not, it may be. Regardless, the power curve now matches my riding style and throttle control way better. It seems like I do not have to shift nearly as much. Maybe before, I was trying to ride in too high a gear to keep RPMS lower for better throttle control. Now I can ride in any gear, have great torque and throttle control from idle to red line, from stop and go traffic, to 30 to 60 mph in the twisties, and also at 90 mph on the highway.
 
It seems like throttle is less sensitive because more throttle rotation is needed for a certain amount of desired power spread out over a longer range of RPM. Seems like engine power curve is now matching the speed I am trying to go. Even if total power is down, controllability is so much better that it is easier and more confidence inspiring to ride faster (I already rode too fast, and really do not want to go any faster than what I call aggressive street speeds).
 
Since the numbers on my dash gauge do not match what the manual says, I suspect the accelerator position sensor may be out of calibration internally. I ended up turning it to lower the numbers (I think moving the top of the accelerator position sensor backwards about 3 mm at the mounting bolt.)  How much to move it is still a guess.  If you are careful to mark the original position, you can re-adjust as needed, test ride, repeat as necessary.  
 
 
I forgot to mention that I have had a G2 Throttle Tamer on for a few thousand miles, it does help improve throttle control.

[xlxr]

There is a throttle position sensor on the Right side of the throttle bodies. I did not touch that one.
 
The accelerator position sensor is behind and in the middle of the bank of throttle bodies, just in front of the rear gas tank mounts.
 
Nels from 2WDW told me about it and to reduce the read out numbers on the dash.
 
It is in the manual.  There was a picture of it already on the forum, but now I cannot find it.

[xlxr]

The number 1 circled in read is the accelerator position sensor that I adjusted. Number 3 is the throttle position sensor I did not touch.
 
Someone will have to explain what those two gizmos do and how they interact, I am not sure.
 
Thanks for posting the pics, I don't know how to do that.

[2and3cylinders]

Has anyone else checked and adjusted the APS and/or TPS?

[2and3cylinders]

I had 2WDW reflash ECU when bike was new, everything else is stock. 6,900 miles on my bike now, and finally did throttle body synch for the first time since new. Idle was getting a little rough, nothing serious, just enough to notice. Engine ran great off idle, gas mileage was 44 to 45 mpg, a mpg or two better than new, but varies with aggressive throttle management. I also installed new stock NGK spark plugs. Original plugs still looked like they had a lot more miles left on them.  The only real reason I did it at 6,900 miles was a week of rainy weather. Afterwards, engine did run smoother, enough to notice.  
I also adjusted accelerator position sensor per manual instructions, which were not entirely clear to me, and I may not have done it correctly. The manual says to adjust idle and full throttle position at both mode numbers 14 and 15 and that you should go back and forth between modes 14 and 15 a few times. I am not sure which mode I was in when I adjusted it. I never could get the ranges the manual says, maybe because I was doing it wrong.
 
In stop and go city traffic, the snatchiness of the throttle was reduced in A, STD, and B modes. B mode was really smooth to the point which I felt it would be easy to control on wet, slippery roads. But, I ride in the rain maybe once ever two or three years. STD mode was good for stop and go city traffic riding. A mode snatchiness was a little noticeable in the stop and go city driving, but less than before. I have not been able to test aggressive riding in twisty mountain roads yet, so I am not completely sure if maximum power at full throttle and high rpm has actually been reduced, maybe it has. But the trade-off is a smoother throttle / power curve that is easier to ride, and may actually result in being easier to ride fast / aggressive.
 
The mounting bolts of the accelerator position sensor are fairly easy to loosen / tighten with 8 mm socket on 1/4" drive ratchet with a universal joint. If you are having snatchy throttle problems, might as well try adjusting the accelerator position sensor. You will need the manual.

The FSM instructions for adjusting the APS call for removing the TB, which based on my examination of accessibility to the APS (and TPS) seems unnecessary, and I cannot think of any other reason for doing so.  Did you remove the TB to adjust the APS? 
I also find the instructions for adjusting the APS (and TPS) confusing.  Can you add any more insight into the nuances of the procedure now that you can reflect on completing it?
 
Also, did your ECU flash include AIS disable, and did you physically "defeat" the AIS components by either flipping and sealing the OEM reed valves and plugging the OEM AIS cover hose and air box hose "ports", or install a Graves Motorsports type AIS block-off cover kit?
 
Thanks
 

 

 

 

 
 
 

 

 

[xlxr]

The 5th picture from the top is the best pic of the accelerator position sensor.  It is in between the two blue hoses, and you can see the two adjustment bolts above and below it.  This is one of those things that is much easier to do then trying to figure it all out.
 
Note that the blue hose in the last pic has a bad twist in it, I hope you straightened that out.
 
The first step in the manual is getting to the mode on the dash that gives you the read out values that correspond to the position of the accelerator position sensor. Then the manual says you have to check the values at one mode for idle, another mode for full throttle. But there is only one way to adjust the sensor, basically back and forth, which (I assume) will either increase idle and full throttle values at the same time if you move it one way, or decrease both values if  you move the sensor the other way. 
 
I do not think you can decrease the idle value for soft throttle response, but also increase the full throttle value to get more power at top end, but I may be wrong about that.   That may be what the manual is trying to tell you to do, but I could not figure that out.  I assume moving the top of the sensor to the rear is lowering the values at idle and full throttle which is what you want to soften the throttle, but my memory fades over time.  I assume, moving the top of the sensor forward increases the values which will make the throttle more sensitive.
 
I just got tired trying to understand what the manual wanted me to do, could not find the correct values, but I was able to determine which way to move the sensor to lower the numbers, and just guessed, and tightened the sensor down.
 
Problem with my sensor, was I was not getting the values stated in the manual. So, as any great shade tree mechanic would do, I just guessed, and moved the accelerator position sensor in the direction to lower the values. The number on my dash would not go as low as the manual suggested,  so I just moved the sensor a little beyond that point any way.
 
Once you get the tank off, or at least out of the way, I had to use 1/4" drive socket with a universal joint to bend at 90 degrees and 1/4" extension bar as a handle to get to and loosen the 2 bolts than lock the accelerator position sensor in place. There just was not enough clearance for a standard wrench to fit over the bolts  Since I had the tank off for throttle sync and plug change, I am not sure if you can reach the bolts by just lifting the rear of the tank up. I guess the only reason to remove the throttle bodies would be to make it easier to get the wrench on the locking bolts.
 
The only problem I can think you may run in to is if the mechanical adjustment of the throttle bodies is way to far off.   Make sure you do this with throttle bodies actually closed at idle and not being held open by some kink in the linkage.  I also assume it would be best to make sure the throttle body sync is at least pretty close to good.  But it appeared to me the accelerator position sensor had far more adjustment range than needed.
 
If you are careful to mark the position of the sensor before you loosen the bolts, then you can test ride to see the effect and make a second adjustment as needed. The only reason you need to get the proper mode on the dash gauge is to see which way moving the sensor moves the numbers up or down.  Even if you get the correct numbers on the dash, it is still a guess how far to lower the number with the sensor adjustment.  Different riders may want different sensitivities of the throttle.  That is why I say a guess is as good as anything.
 
2WDW did my reflash.  I told them I do not want to bother blocking off the air injection ports, so all that is stock on my California bike.
 
I just realized, if I am wrong about which way to move the sensor, or you move it to far the wrong way, you may end up with the throttle being way to sensitive and difficult to control.  Better be careful on the first test ride.
 
 
 
 
 
 

[2and3cylinders]

Pio, it may be possible to only raise the rear of the tank but access to the bolts will be very, very difficult. However, I would recommend you also monitor TB sync while attempting to adjust the APS and as you at least initially must remove the tank (if you note in photos 3 & 4 I have installed hoses to each cylinders TB vacuum port so I can check if not also adjust TB sync without removing the fuel tank) to connect the manometer, I do not see the logic in attempting to adjust the APS without the tank remove.
 
xlxr, thanks for your input however indefinite. You should find out if the AIS function was disabled during your ECU flash, as it can be and the AIS plumbing be left in place and connected but inoperable without needing to remove it and install AM block=off plates (though without doing the latter the A/F, O2 and CO readings will consequently be skewed.
 
And the hose that looked twisted was that way as it is the crank case breather hose from the valve cover to the air box as viewed with the air box lifted and turned with the hose in question still connected thus it was temporarily kinked between the two electrical switches, thanks.
 
I am considering plugging the air box port from the breather hose and installing a new hose from the valve cover breather to an oil vapor separator bottle that has an air filter to atmosphere because oil vapor fed to the air box for emission reasons has a nasty effect on the TB, combustion chamber, valves, etc...

[xlxr]

My spark plugs were so clean that 2WDW must have shut off the AIS, I don't remember them saying anything about it. I use a full synthetic PAO based oil which minimizes the gunk left behind by dino based oils, and I do not think I will ever get enough miles on the bike to make any difference. Right now, my bike is running so good, I do not want to mess with the AIS system, but I might later when I have time.