Valve check

[jsp]

Another tip: Many many moons ago, at Kawasaki Racing Engines School, we were taught to set clearance to max spec and exactly the same. Over the last several years this advice has served me well. If you are going to spend the time to check valve clearance, spend the time to set the clearance exactly correct. Do not be satisfied with just being in spec. john

That's interesting. What was their reasoning for the maximum side of the spec? 
Typically, exhaust valve clearances get looser over time, and the intake clearances go tighter.
 
The other issue with setting them exactly is that most shim kits are 0.5mm increments. It's difficult to find them in 0.1mm increments unless the factory installed them when the engine was assembled.
 
Thus it's harder if not sometimes impossible to put the clearance exactly where you want it.
 
-Skip
Skip, valves almost always get tighter with wear, because the valve and valve seat is the issue over time. As the motor warms up, clearances get tighter, so running on the loose side of in spec makes sure the valve completely closes for better cooling, longer wear and so on. The running benefit is smoother idle, better throttle response, and a much longer interval between adjustments. I've been doing it that way for well over 30 years. It works.
john

 

[jsp]

From what I understand, hand sanding shims, (not grinding) is commonly needed to get the clearance closer than possible with stock shims. Lets hear from guys with more experience.

John, ProX and Hot Cams all make shims in .025 mm ( .001 inch) increments so there is no reason to sand them. Someone else pointed out sanding will remove the surface hardening. Plus the shims are only $2.00 each. Shims in good condition can also be reused with no issues. john
 

[skipperT]

From what I understand, hand sanding shims, (not grinding) is commonly needed to get the clearance closer than possible with stock shims. Lets hear from guys with more experience.

 
Dude, no offense taken - but I've removed more sets of camshafts and adjusted more valves in the last 15 years then I care to list on this forum. I've got experience, thanks.
 
-S

[skipperT]

That's interesting. What was their reasoning for the maximum side of the spec? 
Typically, exhaust valve clearances get looser over time, and the intake clearances go tighter.
 
The other issue with setting them exactly is that most shim kits are 0.5mm increments. It's difficult to find them in 0.1mm increments unless the factory installed them when the engine was assembled.
 
Thus it's harder if not sometimes impossible to put the clearance exactly where you want it.
 
-Skip
Skip, valves almost always get tighter with wear, because the valve and valve seat is the issue over time. As the motor warms up, clearances get tighter, so running on the loose side of in spec makes sure the valve completely closes for better cooling, longer wear and so on. The running benefit is smoother idle, better throttle response, and a much longer interval between adjustments. I've been doing it that way for well over 30 years. It works.
john

 
Not always, in my experience.
 
Shim under bucket designs - some of those will usually get tighter. Although I've had some engines over the years that went tight/loose (IN/EX) or loose/tight, depending on how they were abused.
 
Screw and locknut adjuster styles will get tight/loose. Most Yamaha 4 and 5 valve single cylinder engines, along with Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha twins wear in this manner.
 
So we can agree to disagree, I guess.
 
What I wanted further clarification on- was WHY set a motor to the loose side of spec.
 
Old timer that I know who built race motors said just the opposite - that if the clearances are on the tight side, that the engine will make more power. And obviously require more frequent checks/adjustments.
 
So I find it interesting that Kaw would train race engine builders to set valve clearances loose.
 
An engine set to the loose side of spec is generally noisier in the valve train too.
 
-Skip
 
 
 
 
 

[skipperT]

From what I understand, hand sanding shims, (not grinding) is commonly needed to get the clearance closer than possible with stock shims. Lets hear from guys with more experience.

John, ProX and Hot Cams all make shims in .025 mm ( .001 inch) increments so there is no reason to sand them. Someone else pointed out sanding will remove the surface hardening. Plus the shims are only $2.00 each. Shims in good condition can also be reused with no issues. john

 
That's good to know.
My Hotcams shim set is only in 0.05mm increments.
 
I will look into that ProX set, because it would offer much more flexibility for shim selection.
 
-Skip
 

[xlxr]

Big difference between shims with .5 mm interval and .025 mm interval. From the manual, intake valve clearance is 0.11 - 0.20 mm, exhaust 0.26 - 0.30 mm. Which means shims with .5 mm really limit accuracy.
 
There has always been conflicting opinions of whether valve clearances get tighter or looser over time, exhaust tighter, intake looser. My guess is it can go either way, depending on a variety of factors, how hard, how hot the engine was run, and probably how well it was set up from initially from the factory. I deal with that by what the valve clearances are when I first open up the engine. If the clearance is too much, I assume that direction is the trend, and adjust it opposite. In other words, if the clearance is too loose, I will adjust it on the tight end of the spec. I also feel slightly loose is better than slightly tight, too tight can damage valve seats more quickly. Race engines may need to be on the tight side, but then assume they will be checked more often. Street engines can tolerate looser specs without problems.
 
Since I have no idea how much experience any one has, I question everything. To be clear, my previous comments were based on Ducati, not Yamaha, and I have not worked as a mechanic in a few decades, and only did one valve adjustment on the Ducati. I have about 2 years before I have to adjust the valves, so I am taking note until then.

[skipperT]

Xlxr sorry that was a typo. Fixed

[xlxr]

No problem, my comment about guys with more experience was meant in general.

[Buggy Nate]

Fwiw I'm with Skip on this too, I have been doing this for over 17 years as well, inlets almost always close up, and exhaust almost always loosen, I have had triumphs in for a service well before the valves were due and they have been well over 0.55mm on the exhaust!! And inlets well out of range on the tight side, Leaving the clearances on the tight side (even 0.00mm) was a trick for people trying to get maximum reading on dyno runs... I wouldn't leave v/c's on the loose side as you often get chattering on the bucket from the cam smacking into the bucket instead of gradually pushing it open.
I always go for the middle of the range and check regularly. And if you are at the cams you might as well take the time to set them all the same. We use shims that go up in 0.02-0.03 increments. Eg 180, 182, 185, 188, 190. It makes getting the clearances spot on fairly easy. But some sizes only come in 0.05 which sucks.

[Buggy Nate]

I did two Mt-09 valve jobs this week at work. Piece of piss to work on these triples! So much nicer than the british lumps I get sometimes... One was the naked mt-09 and the other was my own Mt-09 Tracer. I had stripped mine down to the cams and checked the clearances in 40mins.
The customers Mt-09 needed two exhaust shims changed at 25k km's, and mine were all in spec at the same k's.
They were only marginally out 0.23mm on one exhaust valve on #2 and #3 cylinders.
The cct is a interesting design with a special tool required to retract and reset the tensioner. I made one out of a cut down 3mm allen key pressed into a 10mm hex nut section. It enabled me to remove both cams without the need of removing the cct.
The tensioner retains its position whilst the allen key/special tool is inserted and only springs out once the allen key is removed. The manual also called for a extra 1/8 to 1/4 of additional tension once light contact had been made with the guide.
The other VERY different point with these motors is the cams are removed at 125 degrees btdc rather than tdc like every other manufacturer. Also the cams sprocket timing marks don't line up with anything of any significance.
So again please make sure you have a factory manual to help with these little details.
 

[Brick]

I did two Mt-09 valve jobs this week at work. Piece of piss to work on these triples! So much nicer than the british lumps I get sometimes... One was the naked mt-09 and the other was my own Mt-09 Tracer. I had stripped mine down to the cams and checked the clearances in 40mins. The customers Mt-09 needed two exhaust shims changed at 25k km's, and mine were all in spec at the same k's.
They were only marginally out 0.23mm on one exhaust valve on #2 and #3 cylinders.
The cct is a interesting design with a special tool required to retract and reset the tensioner. I made one out of a cut down 3mm allen key pressed into a 10mm hex nut section. It enabled me to remove both cams without the need of removing the cct.
The tensioner retains its position whilst the allen key/special tool is inserted and only springs out once the allen key is removed. The manual also called for a extra 1/8 to 1/4 of additional tension once light contact had been made with the guide.
The other VERY different point with these motors is the cams are removed at 125 degrees btdc rather than tdc like every other manufacturer. Also the cams sprocket timing marks don't line up with anything of any significance.
So again please make sure you have a factory manual to help with these little details.

 
Vduboy,
This is great that you posted these helpful observations. Would it be possible for you to post a photo of the special tool you made please? I'm sure if I could see it I would understand much better.
Thanks Brick
 

[Buggy Nate]

 

See if this works, the exposed allen key section is 35mm long, I cut the thread off a generic 8mm flanged headed case bolt, then drilled a three mm hole in the centre. (Lathe helps there) And pressed the allen key into the bolt head.

[Buggy Nate]

See if this works, the exposed allen key section is 35mm long, I cut the thread off a generic 8mm flanged headed case bolt, then drilled a three mm hole in the centre. (Lathe helps there) And pressed the allen key into the bolt head.

...is that a DIY for the tool shown here? Part# 1RC-12228-00 (hexagon wrench). Cool tool, but I assume just a shortened Allen key would work? 
 

No it won't, not enough room to spin the allen key, unless you have a 3mm spanner! As soon as you remove the allen key the tensioner springs back out.. and yes to replace the tool pictured. 

[2and3cylinders]

...is that a DIY for the tool shown here? Part# 1RC-12228-00 (hexagon wrench). Cool tool, but I assume just a shortened Allen key would work? 
 

No it won't, not enough room to spin the allen key, unless you have a 3mm spanner! As soon as you remove the allen key the tensioner springs back out.. and yes to replace the tool pictured.

So you remove bolt 5EL-12228-00-00 (and BTW I cannot find tool 1RC-12228-00, which has the same number less the FJ-09 model prefix 1RC as the aforementioned bolt) and insert the tool or what exactly to keep the tensioner from backing out? 
see
 
http://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/oemparts/a/yam/546a26caf87002164cb28013/camshaft-chain
 
But in order to remove the cams to change the shims, does not the cam chain need to be loosened (I usually zip-tie the cam chain to the cams to keep the cam timing) by backing out the tensioner?  So why hold it?
 
Inquiring minds need to know as this week I am checking the TB sync and changing the spark plugs, and was going to check valve lash while in there.
 
I read on Pro-X's website their shims come in .25 mm increments and plan on calling them tomorrow to verify.  They have two 7.48 mm shim kits, one runs from 1.20 ~ 3.50 mm and the other 1.225 ~ 3.475 mm; which should I obtain IYO?

[Buggy Nate]

Get the biggest shim kit in the most range of sizes you can get, it'll help with getting the clearances exactly where you want them. As with your other question if you have to ask if the cam chain needs loosening it is really Not a job you should learn on. They are just a little different to a conventional jap motor to do shims on, either way a manual is 100% a must. No offence intended by the way.