Woah, hello Alta Motors !

[adjuster]

I have to agree that as the "razor" market becomes larger and larger, it's bringing in folks who have less experience in riding, or NO experience in riding trails, and they zoom around in their 25k turbo razor at 90mph and wonder why they just ran over a rider? (Any rider.. Pedal/Gas or Electric.)
 
Watched it for years on sand dunes. Folks riding motorcycles then to 3 wheel ATC's... Then Quads. Then Sand Rails and Dune Buggies. (Some Dune Buggies have been around for a long time, but not like today's with twin turbo V8's pushing 1500hp and capable of going 150mph in a few seconds.)
 
I was riding in CA many years ago, and had a buddy hit by a "dune buggy" two drunk girls were driving. They were not even going to stop. We had to chase them down, and then find a Sheriff to arrest the driver for DUI hit and run. He was lucky it was just a broken Tibia when they "T" boned him over a sand dune top.
 
Flags have helped, but are a stop gap measure in that the new machines can really fly off the dune tops, or as noted, here, around blind corners and there is no easy way to stop or avoid bikes and others on the trails, especially if they are narrow and already being "crowded" out by wide ATV's and Razor's.
 
I personally think single track should be open to any TWO wheel traffic.
ATV/Razor trails are more like roads, and should be open to any traffic.
 
The issue I have is folks who think trails should be ONLY for walking or riding a pedal bike on. They are selfish, and don't see their own hypocritical existance is due to the trails already being there DUE to motorized traffic in the first place in most cases.
 
I have also had it with armed v/s unarmed folks and their views too. I ride armed. It's usually open carry too. This seems to make a certain faction of the public go nuts, and I even had some idiot try and "confiscate" my side arm? It was not a good situation all around. She and her "Companion" were hiking, I was riding my KTM enduro and the next thing I knew, I was struck by a large branch across the chest and arms. I had seen them on the trail side, I was going pretty slow, not even loud, as that bike had a pretty tame muffler, and I was going perhaps 5 to 8mph. Slower than most mountain bikes.
 
They took it upon themselves to attack me, and then tried to dis-arm me when I stopped to ask WTF was up with hitting me?
 
Take care when you ride the foothills of Boise! LOL I was up near Paris when this encounter happened, looking at old mines and single track out there. Some private land, some BLM, but it's all open with few fences since I avoid riding around fences period. (No fun hitting wire at any speed.)

[keithu]

We must live in different worlds. I've been riding mountain bikes for years and almost all of the trails I ride here in Oregon were built BY mountain bike groups specifically FOR mountain bikes. Oakridge, Mac Forest, Black Rock, Alsea Falls, Bend/Sisters... these are some of the most popular MTB trail systems in Oregon. None of them were built by motorcycle riders.
 
If the trails were built by motorcyclists, I totally agree they should be open to motorcycles. But if the trail was built by MTBers, you can't assume it's okay for motorcycles. Some features simply aren't designed for the weight or power of motorcycles. Or horses, for that matter. Most of the worst trail damage I see and hear about these days is caused by:
 
1. Other mountain bikers who ride the trails when they're too wet/muddy.
 
2. Horse riders who posthole the sh!t out of every soft spot on a trail.

[Cruizin]

We must live in different worlds. I've been riding mountain bikes for years and almost all of the trails I ride here in Oregon were built BY mountain bike groups specifically FOR mountain bikes. Oakridge, Mac Forest, Black Rock, Alsea Falls, Bend/Sisters... these are some of the most popular MTB trail systems in Oregon. None of them were built by motorcycle riders. 
If the trails were built by motorcyclists, I totally agree they should be open to motorcycles. But if the trail was built by MTBers, you can't assume it's okay for motorcycles. Some features simply aren't designed for the weight or power of motorcycles. Or horses, for that matter. Most of the worst trail damage I see and hear about these days is caused by:
 
1. Other mountain bikers who ride the trails when they're too wet/muddy.
 
2. Horse riders who posthole the sh!t out of every soft spot on a trail.

 
 
So, those trails weren't there until the late 80's? BEcause thats when Mountain bikes started coming out, late 80's. Im surprised to hear that all of those Oregon trails didn't exist before the late 80's.
 
I do run into alot of dirtbikers from Oregon, visiting here in Idaho to ride our trails. They complain alot about being kicked off their trails over the last 20 years or so.

[keithu]

Yes.
 
Oakridge: sone trails may go back in time, but many don't. Most have been built recently in the last 10-15 years by MTB groups.
 
Mac Forest: all on land owned by OSU, definitely never open to motorcycles.
 
Black Rock: 100% constructed by the Black Rock Mountain Bike Association
 
Alsea Falls: all new trails in the last 0-3 years, built by MTB groups.
 
Bend/Sisters: similar to Oakridge, some may be older but many are newer and built by MTBers.
 
A lot of former OHV trails are closed due to wilderness designations. But those are closed to all wheeled traffic, including bicycles. Likewise the PCT, it is now closed to all wheeled traffic.

[adjuster]

Have to love Wilderness...
 
Land of no use.
 
But it gets to burn off every summer now.
 
Nice progress....
 
And riders? We get the shaft. And snowmobiles? They get reamed too. (And they don't even leave tracks that last past the spring thaw...) Just insane use of our "public" lands by folks who from what I can tell, either don't live here, or come to visit for 3 days a year and want to sit quietly in a yurt next to a hot spring they paid 15,000.00 to fly into some remote airstrip in the "wilderness" area... Yes, land of no use to anyone but the rich and powerful elites.
 
Far too many great rides are no longer due to "Wilderness" and situations where trails and roads have been closed to all but "approved" traffic.
 
Approved by whom? And for what purpose? And further, who decided "they" are able to make that choice for me? LOL
 
Years ago, when I was living over in Eastern Idaho, the area around and South of "craters of the moon" was "EO'd by Clinton into wilderness or National Park status. This took out hundreds of miles of great riding roads, and access to all the lava tubes, and other features out there. I used to go camping and spend quite a bit of time out exploring these areas, and now they are all closed off...
 
One day you could drive right to the place, the next, there was fancy new gate, and signs saying it was a national park. Land of no use to anyone. (Since the park entrance was 80 miles North and there are no roads to get back South...)
 
SO, what's a guy to do? Well, I stopped, looked at the "gate" and found that I was not the first to come along. The lock was not just cut off, but it was cut off by a torch. Along with the mounting plates for the lock. So no lock on the gate, went in, enjoyed my weekend of camping and exploring in the middle of nowhere, never saw anyone else, and left the gate closed as I found it.
 
The next time I came back, it was clear that a farmer had needed to get into that area, and get his cattle, or whatever. (The roads I'm talking about are used by locals only, to haul cattle, move equipment and the new "boundries" did not take any of that into account at all.)
 
SO, what did the farmer do? It was clear they had enough of the gate and fence system. The entire section of gate, fence and all signs of "limits' were a few hundred yards away, in a big bent up pile that clearly was ripped out of the ground, bent up and totally destroyed by some large equipment. The fence had been a 4 barbed wire deal.. it was now just wound up T posts and corners all in a bent up pile with the gates.
 
The next time I went back, it seems the park service had given up, there was no more attempts at gates, fences etc.
 
But mot everyone has large equipment to just remove and repair what you need to in the middle of nowhere Idaho, when some bone head in DC makes a choice that is not practical for the folks who actually live here.