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OEM Suspension setup?


jeffritz

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Ok, so a suspension noob here. I would like to setup my suspension myself. I understand the workings behind spring preload and valve damping (compression & rebound). Its the setup theory that confuses me.
 
For example I hear that you want 30% rider/race sag. But I'm assuming this changes with type of bike and suspension. So I also hear that a manufacture will recommend XX% sag based on the OEM suspension on the bike.
 
What I'm looking for is concrete numbers. Does Yamaha call for a magic mm/% of sag front and rear for the FJ? Is this found in the service manual?
Should the front match the rear? Is it all just voodoo that gets passed from Jedi suspension tuner to apprentice?
 
So would like to know the optimal:
Race sag (Front/Rear)?
Static sag (Front/Rear)?
Where these figures are found for the FJ-09?
 
Don't mean to sound like a asshat demanding something that does not really exist as a 100% absolute. Just after hours of research trying to make sense of it all.
 
Thanks!
 
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Race sag and static sag are the same thing. Text book for a street bike F/R is 28%-33%. After you set it jump up and down on the pegs with someone watching for equal travel F/R. Adjust as necessary until they're the same.
 
Typically, if you add preload you'll need to add dampening and vice-versa.  Too little dampening and the suspension will be bouncy, too much and it will be harsh.
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Ill have to do some more reading up but I understand there is an art to setting up suspensions. This is exactly the information I was looking for. Concise and to the point, enough to get me in the right direction.
 
I'm sure once I start to tweak and ride I'll be heading back here for more advice.
 
Thank you lee!
 
 
 
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Race sag and static sag are the same thing. Text book for a street bike F/R is 28%-33%. After you set it jump up and down on the pegs with someone watching for equal travel F/R. Adjust as necessary until they're the same. 
Typically, if you add preload you'll need to add dampening and vice-versa.  Too little dampening and the suspension will be bouncy, too much and it will be harsh.
I always set around 25% rear and 33% front.  Maybe this is what you meant but is appears the opposite in your post.
2008 Street Triple G
2015 FJ-09
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Sag is relative to load of rider+passenger+luggage. Measure w/o load. Measure with load. Front and rear should be about the same. Start with damping per Yamaha spec. Read the manual for making softer or harder and adjust to your likeing.
 
Now, you can stiffen up the suspension by adding preload, and then adjust damping to your likeing. I recommend to start by knowing what your load is first. If it is 150-175 lbs. you may not have to do any adjustment. As is the case with me. If you are riding in the canyons or mountains, you may want it to be stiffer and/or harder, (a couple klicks in on damping and 1-2mm in on compression FF, notch or two on rear shock), while if you are going to be touring, you may want it softer.(a couple klicks off on the damping, a notch on the rear shock). Sag is mostly relative to weight. Just because Jack is adjusting his suspension by making it stiffer, doesn't do you any good to do the same if Jack weighs 75 lbs more than you. Make sure you understand these critical reasons for making adjustments in the first place. I am not a expert, just info gathered from folks at GP and reading.

Ken, Candy Ass L.D.R. Sleeps 8 hours
(2)2005 FJR1300abs:  230,000 m
2015 FJ-09:  114,000 m (Replaced engine at 106K)

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Race sag and static sag are the same thing. Text book for a street bike F/R is 28%-33%.
I always set around 25% rear and 33% front.  Maybe this is what you meant but is appears the opposite in your post.
It's meant to be a range of adjustment not a hard number for either one.
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  • 2 months later...
There is no "magic" always right answer. It takes experimentation since people have different likes, different tires, different loads, etc. The ball-park ranges given above are close enough that you're good.
 
Static sag != race sag. Former is unloaded. Latter is with rider aboard and your typical complement of luggage attached.
 
Soften up all comp and rebound settings. Set your sag. if you set rider (aka race) sag and you have wound in so much preload that you have too little static sag, your spring rates are too soft. If you can't get any static sag with no preload, they are too stiff. Once that's sorted, do damping.
 
You should start with comp set to full soft at both ends and leave it there. From full soft, add as much rebound is necessary to eliminate pogo when shoving on the bars with no rider aboard and bike held vertical at the tail. Do the shock end. Shove downward on the gas tank and seat and check that both ends are roughly in sync.
 
Then find a set of roads that have a mix of smooth and choppy section, and some longish constant radius curves (eg. on/off ramps) and S-bend and tweak 1/2 a turn either way on just the rebound till you find that which makes you feel confident in the front and rear end. You want the forks to stay down during the first half of the arc and smoothly extend on exit. The shock you want it to keep steady (often it will try to extend too fast) on entry and hold it as you add gas.
 
If the shock is squatting, add compression till you feel it's stable but don't over do it and get wheel hop when you go back over those bumps.
 
Add fork compression only to the degree that it helps stability in hard braking.
 
Keep a log. Always count your adjustments from full HARD (CW all the way in, lightly seated) in clicks or turns in a CCW direction. Make changes in at least 1/2 turn increments (most people can't feel 1/4), but once you're close, go 1/4 one way or the other and then do 1/2 turn back and forth to arrive at ideal.
 
Don't just twiddle. Approach it methodically and keep simultaneous variables to a minimum.
What feels good will drift with weather, mood, tire selection and pressure, and riding pace.
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There is no "magic" always right answer. It takes experimentation since people have different likes, different tires, different loads, etc. The ball-park ranges given above are close enough that you're good. 
Static sag != race sag. Former is unloaded. Latter is with rider aboard and your typical complement of luggage attached.
 
Soften up all comp and rebound settings. Set your sag. if you set rider (aka race) sag and you have wound in so much preload that you have too little static sag, your spring rates are too soft. If you can't get any static sag with no preload, they are too stiff. Once that's sorted, do damping.
 
You should start with comp set to full soft at both ends and leave it there. From full soft, add as much rebound is necessary to eliminate pogo when shoving on the bars with no rider aboard and bike held vertical at the tail. Do the shock end. Shove downward on the and see that both ends are roughly in sync.
 
Then find a set of roads that have a mix of smooth and choppy section, and some longish constant radius curves (eg. on/off ramps) and S-bend and tweak 1/2 a turn either way on just the rebound till you find that which makes you feel confident in the front and rear end. You want the forks to stay down during the first half of the arc and smoothly extend on exit. The shock you want it to keep steady (often it will try to extend too fast) on entry and hold it as you add gas.
 
If the shock is squatting, add compression till you feel it's stable but don't over do it and get wheel hop when you go back over those bumps.
 
Add fork compression only to the degree that it helps stability in hard braking.
 
Keep a log. Always count your adjustments from full HARD (CW all the way in, lightly seated) in clicks or turns in a CCW direction. Make changes in at least 1/2 turn increments (most people can't feel 1/4), but once you're close, go 1/4 one way or the other and then do 1/2 turn back and forth to arrive at ideal.
 
Don't just twiddle. Approach it methodically and keep simultaneous variables to a minimum.
What feels good will drift with weather, mood, tire selection and pressure, and riding pace.
 
as this thread is about the OEM suspension what you say above does not really apply, whether it is technically accurate or not. There is no compression adjustment on the stock suspension.
 
This signature is left blank as the poster writes enough pretentious bollocks as it is.
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Fair enough @wessie, I didn't pick up on the lack of comp with OEM bits. Nonetheless if you have aftermarket suspension with that knob to tweak, the description stands. If OEM is still harsh after doing the adjustments, then it's time to figure out what the supplier did wrong with the comp circuit.
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Guys, just so ya know Pattonme really knows his shet. I'm trying to get him to join as a supporting Vendor. He is on FZ07.org.
perhaps he should read the FJ09 manual before giving advice on how to set up the OE suspension :)
This signature is left blank as the poster writes enough pretentious bollocks as it is.
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  • 3 months later...
I had my local guy set up the suspension on my bike. He said the front is ok not great and suggested a stiffer spring for the rear to make the bike more balanced. He said it would only run $130 installed for a new rear spring so I'm going to talk to him about ordering it.
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 However I personally don't like the Yamaha standard geometry and have fitted a slightly shorter Ohlins rear shock which increases the trail and rake at the front and calms down the high speed handling issues I used to get over 115-130 mph.  I hope this is of some help.
Details please such as total length dimensions and did this raise the rear ride height (seems the shorter vs longer shock adjustments are reversed on the tracer). On my FJR, shorter dog bones raised the rear where on the tracer, longer dog bones raise the rear.  
A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
Bikes:
2015 FJ-09, Seat Concepts seat cover and foam, Cal Sci medium screen, rim stripes, factory heated grips, Cortech Dryver tank bag ring, Modified stock exhaust, FlashTune with Graves fuel map, Cree driving lights, Aux power socket.
2012 Street Triple type R (Wifes)
2007 FJR1300 (Sold!)
 
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  • 1 month later...
OEM Suspension Set-Up
 
Weight w/o gear 217lbs, no saddlebags installed.
 
Fr. Sag 45mm (9mm of preload adjuster showing as illustrated on page 4-31 of the owners manual)
Fr. Rebound 6 out from full hard
 
Rr. Sag 43mm (3 out of 7 on the rear shock preload adjuster)
Rr. Rebound 1-1/8 turns out
 
Taunt suspension but works for me until I decide to pony up the dollars for the cartridges and Penske.
 
 
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OEM Suspension Set-Up 
Weight w/o gear 217lbs, no saddlebags installed.
 
Fr. Sag 45mm (9mm of preload adjuster showing as illustrated on page 4-31 of the owners manual)
Fr. Rebound 6 out from full hard
 
Rr. Sag 43mm (3 out of 7 on the rear shock preload adjuster)
Rr. Rebound 1-1/8 turns out
 
Taunt suspension but works for me until I decide to pony up the dollars for the cartridges and Penske.
 

Looks like you know what you are doing.  Nice.

Ken, Candy Ass L.D.R. Sleeps 8 hours
(2)2005 FJR1300abs:  230,000 m
2015 FJ-09:  114,000 m (Replaced engine at 106K)

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