thruster8999 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Nope. Its starts fine when its warm. Hard start this morning went to work sat for 8 hour and hard start again. Came how let it sit for 3 hours started fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thruster- are you touching the throttle grip while cranking? If you give it any throttle whatsoever, it "confuses" some of the sensors and will start with more difficulty. The fuel pressure should not bleed down over the course of a minute of "talking with your friends". The only way to confirm that is with a fuel pressure gauge. Is your battery fully charged, meaning 12.5v or higher? You can measure this with a multimeter. Check it before turning the key on. How many miles on the bike? What fuel grade are you using? The other reason to wait for the fuel pump to pressurize the system just after power-up, is that the fly-by-wire (YCCT) system has to initialize and come to rest at the appropriate position for cold/warm start - whatever the case may be. This happens at the same time as the fuel pump cycling, instrument cluster lighting up, etc. Let me know. -skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruster8999 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Not touching the throttle at all. I use non ethanol fuel in all my bikes. I have checked the battery but the bike just turn 1000 miles today. I can see it being the battery but its to new for it to going bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruster8999 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I really dont think the fuel pump is priming because I didnt hear it either time but my zx6r does that sometimes and it still starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hmmm. Well, the fuel pump always primes as long as the RH switch is in run, key switched to on. So if that doesn't occur every time under those conditions, something is up. Did you get your throttle bodies synced at the 600 mile service? The other possibility is a TPS that is just slightly out of adjustment... and/or your spark plugs may be slightly fouled. -S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruster8999 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hmmm. Well, the fuel pump always primes as long as the RH switch is in run, key switched to on. So if that doesn't occur every time under those conditions, something is up. Did you get your throttle bodies synced at the 600 mile service? The other possibility is a TPS that is just slightly out of adjustment... and/or your spark plugs may be slightly fouled. -S My guess is the TPS. I have been reading up in the service manuel but I will taken it in next monday to have it looked at. I am going to try turning the key on with it in the run postion and if I dont hear it prime then I will turn the key off then back on. If it primes then something may be up with the ecu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Not necessarily ECU, more probably something feeding the ECU or the "key-on" circuit. But who knows. You can check the TPS and APS as far as the numerical values go, before your trip to the dealer. Hold in the TCS and RESET buttons on the display. Turn the key on, keep holding for 5-6 seconds. The RH display will change, and say Select and ECU and be flashing. Release TCS &RESET buttons, and then push and hold them both simultaneously until display changes to DIAG. Release buttons again, then press and hold a 3rd time. Screen will change to read DIAG on one line with the number 01, and below that DATA and a number (probably 15-17). DIAG 01 is TPS at rest value, usually 15-16 Push the TCS Button to change to DIAG 03, etc. to go back, use the RESET button. DIAG 13 14 and 15 are also all resting TPS and APS values, if I remember correctly. (IIRC) You can rotate the throttle from idle to WOT slowly to see these values increase or decrease. My bike is 15-17 at rest, 100 at WOT. I haven't gotten around to changing these to see if it will effect my bike's intermittent reluctance to fast idle when cold and temps are cold. I have also had my bike fail to start at times, but usually it's because I didn't wait for the fuel pump to cycle. But this will give you an idea. Adjusting the TPS/APS is a sensitive deal, and more accurate when done with a multi meter than by using the on board or Yamaha system, IMHO. Some bikes are more sensitive to the way in which you adjust the values, than others. -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member jimf Posted May 5, 2015 Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2015 I can see it being the battery but its to new for it to going bad. On my last bike the battery in the brand-new bike died in less than 3 weeks, just totally kaput. So, don't count it out just because it's new -- they sometimes have manufacturing defects. That's when I learned that the battery is also a capacitor, as the fuel injection system (and everything else) kept cutting out as I limped the bike home after jump-starting it. That wasn't so much fun. 2015 FJ-09 (Mary Kate) 2007 Daytona 675 (Tabitha, ret.) 1998 Vulcan 800 (Ret.) 2001 SV650S (Veronica, Ret.) 2000 Intruder 800 (Ret.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruster8999 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I do agree batteries can give out at anytime. I will need to buy a multimeter today to test it, also I will check the TPS through the onboard computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Ok. And check your terminal connections while you are there. They should be snug - you should not be able to wiggle the cables where they attach to the battery posts. nothing should be caught under them either, for example the red protective cap. Same on the ground side. I have seen someone install a battery tender pigtail on their machine, for example - and tighten the bolt down on top of the protective cap instead of the bare metal part of the cable. This creates an inconsistent power flow through the entire system which can do some really wacky things. -S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruster8999 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Came home check the battery voltage its at 13.04. Did the diag like you said and got 15 upto 17. Wasnt sure how to get out of home diag so I keep pressing the tcs and going through the numbers up to 60 till I got back to 1. Hopefully didnt mess anything up. I didnt change any values. Turn the key on with the red button in run waited for the computer to boot and didnt hear the pump prime. Push the button didnt start but only pressed it for a second or two. Turn key off then on heard the pump prime pushed the button and started right up. Hopefully this all makes sense. Got on the FZ09 forum and found this to be a problem with them to. So here is my thought on all this. I think the ecu doesnt wake up the fuel pump unless you turn it off then on again on a cold start. Will try again tomorrow. If anyone has any thoughts on this I am all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Good stuff, Thruster. Sounds like battery is ok. Once in DIAG mode, simply turning off the key is the easiest way to exit. You actually can't change anything in DIAG, it is a "read only" situation. You can manipulate various items that are monitored like the side stand switch or throttle or even crank it over while hitting the start button in certain channels and see how the sensor values change. But you can't adjust anything from there. You didn't screw anything up, no worries. When you turned the key to On and DIDNT hear the pump prime the first time this evening, was it just after observing the data in DIAG mode? Did you leave the key off for several seconds just before the starting attempt? And is this typical of your hard starting issue? -S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thruster8999 Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I tried starting the bike before the diag. I turn the key and didnt here the prime wait a few second and push the button. It would just crank. Shut the key off gave it a few more seconds turn it back on waited for the computer to cycle and heard the prime. It started right up. It might be somethimg to do with the ecu thinking it doesnt need to be primed because it thinks its still warm and fuel is still in the system. Not sure but its a thought. Read over at the fz forum that this is a issue as well. Most say if it doesnt start first try turn key off and back on and it will start right up. This is only a temp fix but would really like to solve it and the reason why it does this to certain bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I tried starting the bike before the diag. I turn the key and didnt here the prime wait a few second and push the button. It would just crank. Shut the key off gave it a few more seconds turn it back on waited for the computer to cycle and heard the prime. It started right up. It might be somethimg to do with the ecu thinking it doesnt need to be primed because it thinks its still warm and fuel is still in the system. Not sure but its a thought. Read over at the fz forum that this is a issue as well. Most say if it doesnt start first try turn key off and back on and it will start right up. This is only a temp fix but would really like to solve it and the reason why it does this to certain bikes. Highly doubt the ECU choosing if it wants to fire the pump or not. It should fire the pump without fail for 4 seconds every time the key is cycled from Off to On - as long as the stop/run switch is in Run. If you want to order and throw parts at it, then I can suggest one. Otherwise, the bike is under warranty and the dealership should dx and fix it. Sorry man, I think that we've exhausted the Internet forum troubleshooting as much as we can. ;-). I'd make an appt and take it from there. As long as the dealer tech can duplicate the issue you are having (show the service writer at check in) they should be able to figure it out. Good luck and keep us posted. Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Oh and if you have any more thoughts/questions, please post em. I didn't mean that to sound so final! S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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