vinnie Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Look on this page and read both item ones https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/562645c187a86602c84a3038/cylinder-head The 2015 FJ does not have the new part listed as the correct head. It uses the old part number. Yamaha would update it with a crossed line and direct you to the new part number, if it were retrofitable I noticed that. But unless after that VIN number they changed the cylinders, valves, and / or other associated part numbers too then there should be no reason the updated part number wouldn't work on an older bike. This is very recent, so I don't know. I see that the head gasket does not seem to be compatible with the old head too. Regardless, I am working to find out more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnie Posted May 30, 2018 Author Share Posted May 30, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member sterlinggold Posted May 30, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted May 30, 2018 They look fairly identical. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmiller Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Okay so I have an update here. I found out that Yamaha has a new head, which was cut into production mid year, for the 2016 FJ and FZ09. I don’t have an FJ yet. If a ’16 model came up, how would I know if it’s pre-change or post-change? Maybe I should limit my search to ‘17+. I feel bad for what OP is going through, but it is still much too early for other FJ-09 owners or potential owners to panic. This is the first of this issue we have seen thus far. Even if there is a problem, it will likely only affect a small percentage of bikes. Unfortunately, if you were to be affected by this it is an expensive repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnie Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 They look fairly identical. What am I missing?All four seats have multi angle cuts on the new head and the old head exhaust seats are rounded out into one large cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Maybe, Chitown - but do you want to roll the dice on a $1500-$2000 repair because you delayed a simple valve clearance inspection? Maint intervals in the service manual are a guide. Sometimes you need to be a bit more proactive. When the book writers wrote the service manual, they didn’t know how these engines were going to wear and hold up under consumer use, IMHO. They had an idea, but actual time in the field can prove otherwise. -Skip Understood but my point is if we don't know what frequency of check would allow us to see and correct the problem before damage (or even if it's possible to know) then it's just speculation. Folks can toss out 10k, 5k, 1k, whatever. Is there any data to support one of those numbers over the other? There's a point where the cost of prevention vs the cost of repair cross and my answer may be yes I'm rolling dice. Always take max odds, bet the come until 4 & 8 are covered, the hard ways are sucker bets, and throw out a two way yo bet every once in awhile for karma No, there’s no data available. Just what you have read on this forum. And remember to take that with a grain of salt. Many people who ride don’t post on Internet forums, and you don’t usually hear from people who haven’t had any issues. If you’re worried, check em at 12 or 16k when spark plugs are scheduled to be replaced. MHO, -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Why do you think they're not compatible? Look on this page and read both item ones https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/562645c187a86602c84a3038/cylinder-head The 2015 FJ does not have the new part listed as the correct head. It uses the old part number. Yamaha would update it with a crossed line and direct you to the new part number, if it were retrofitable Disagree with that statement. Yamaha doesn’t say ANYTHING in parts catalogs about what part numbers are retrofittable. All they state is what the new part number is. There’s never a reason given in the parts cat, in my experience for a change in p/n. You can infer whatever you want from a p/n change, but that doesn’t make it gospel. -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Okay so I have an update here. I found out that Yamaha has a new head, which was cut into production mid year, for the 2016 FJ and FZ09. I was also told recently that there is an issue with "sinking seats" where the valve seats sink into the head, towards the cylinder. Turns out that my intake seats were sinking too, but maintaining the right angle cut profile. We (me, my mechanic, and now a Yamaha dealer involved) see that the exhaust valve guides deformed the exhaust seats, but the intake seats sunk. I still haven't been able to get a picture of the new head, but I will get one up here. Below is the link to a Yamaha parts page for the 2016 FJ. Notice how item 1 has two part numbers and is based on VIN number cut in date. I think the VINs prior to that cut in date are going to see problems. The FZ had the new head cut in for the 2017 model, not 2016. This could be due to when the bikes were manufactured on the line at the factory https://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/5626445187a86602c84a2ee8/cylinder-head Myself and the dealer would recommend checking clearances early and within your warranty period, to document where the valves are at and capture the movement. FZ and FJs have been known to be tight with early valve checks. So like I said I would recommend at least checking early and within warranty. I normally would have said there's no need, but based on this experience... this engine ruined my riding season. I have no bike. I normally ride 25k+ miles a year. Vinnie, thanks for the updates. Another reason for the head p/n change could possibly be related to the oil passage for the cam chain tensioner. Which is why there are 2 different tensioner kits with different procedures depending on VIN. Just putting that out there. Sorry again for the breakdown, and hope you get riding again soon. Your suggestion for early valve clearance inspections for anyone concerned - is a good one. I suspect my head may be susceptible to the seat issue as well - due to my valves being tighter than spec at 21k. Oh well, that’s the chance we early adopters have taken. The CP3 engine has only gotten better since its introduction in the FZ09, and I don’t see Yamaha letting up on development of this engine/platform in the future. Best of luck with the repairs. /Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainscarlet Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I was also told recently that there is an issue with "sinking seats" where the valve seats sink into the head, towards the cylinder. Told by whom and based on what evidence? CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I don’t have an FJ yet. If a ’16 model came up, how would I know if it’s pre-change or post-change? Maybe I should limit my search to ‘17+. I feel bad for what OP is going through, but it is still much too early for other FJ-09 owners or potential owners to panic. This is the first of this issue we have seen thus far. Even if there is a problem, it will likely only affect a small percentage of bikes. Unfortunately, if you were to be affected by this it is an expensive repair.Yeah, I get this. One of the bikes in my stable right now is a BMW K bike that for a small percentage of folks their final drive and/or ABS fails, which, as you can imagine, is a pricey thing. It's just living with the odds that you'll be the one. That's why I was wondering if this issue starts to surface in the earlier models if it would be smarter to get a later model. Again, playing the odds. ’70 Yamaha 125 Enduro; ’75 Honda CB360T; ’81 Yamaha XS650SH; ’82 Honda GL650 Silver Wing Interstate; ’82 Suzuki GS650L; ’87 Yamaha Virago 535; ’87 Yamaha FJ1200; ’96 Honda ST1100; ’99 Yamaha V-Star Classic; ’00 Suzuki SV650; ’07 BMW K1200GT; ’12 Suzuki DR200; ’15 Yamaha FJ-09. Bold = current Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member betoney Posted May 31, 2018 Supporting Member Share Posted May 31, 2018 That's why I was wondering if this issue starts to surface in the earlier models if it would be smarter to get a later model. Again, playing the odds. I would say that if it starts to be a common issue, then start worrying about it. ANY year, make or model can experience a lemon. Hopefully its an anomaly, as it sure isn't a well documented issue unlike something like the CCT. ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I found out that Yamaha has a new head, which was cut into production mid year, for the 2016 FJ and FZ09. I was also told recently that there is an issue with "sinking seats" where the valve seats sink into the head, towards the cylinder. Turns out that my intake seats were sinking too, but maintaining the right angle cut profile. We (me, my mechanic, and now a Yamaha dealer involved) see that the exhaust valve guides deformed the exhaust seats, but the intake seats sunk. Hmm, this is gonna suck. Pity YAM isn't publishing a way to retrofit an old head with a precision pocket and press in an extended thickness beryllium copper-nickle seat. This level of materials/engineering fail deserves a no-questions-asked head replacement across the board regardless of any "extended warranty". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattonme Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 They look fairly identical. What am I missing?The carbon on the old head makes it harder to see but the first angle on the new Intake is broader. I don't know about the angle. I question the angle choices made for the exhaust valve - that ridge is tiny and I'm not the least surprised it succumbed and got pounded flat. Like the new intake, I suspect the exhaust's first angle was too narrow a land and they widened it. It's also not unlikely there was insufficient hardening or incorrect alloy choice. Why in the world they didn't use inserts is beyond me. The width (and/or) angle changes will necessitate different valves for sure even if the pocket itself and the outer recess hasn't changed any. There might more 'surround' supporting the exhaust valve guide and it's hole. Poor lighting in the old head pics doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnie Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 Yamaha corporate inspected the damaged parts and said it isn't warranty-worthy because the engine failure is "normal wear" at 38,000 miles. I had the document faxed to me. I'll have to scan it on here or something, at some point. Moving on to a Vstrom or Kawi Versys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member DavidS Posted June 9, 2018 Premium Member Share Posted June 9, 2018 Yamaha corporate inspected the damaged parts and said it isn't warranty-worthy because the engine failure is "normal wear" at 38,000 miles. I had the document faxed to me. I'll have to scan it on here or something, at some point. Moving on to a Vstrom or Kawi Versys.38K seems kind of low to me for a motorcycle engine. I would have expected it to run to ~100K with proper maintenance and care......... You might want to ask them if they are going to put signs up in the dealerships that the normal life expectancy for a new FJ-09 engine is < 40K miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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