Yamaha Unofficial Known Issue with FJ and FZ Engines

[captainscarlet]

So is Yamaha saying "Yes, your engine failed and that is normal for ~40k miles" or are they only saying "The wear we observed is normal for ~40K miles"?.  
I mean, are they really admitting that it is okay for an engine to fail/require rebuild @ 40K miles???

Yes, I have a response from Yamaha calling it normal wear @ 38000 miles. It's pathetic. Do I think all engines are going to have this failure? No, probably not. But I suspect a run of them, especially earlier ones, are going to see issues. These issues are not new to Yamaha. They aren't doing their reputation any favors with how they treated me. I reached out to the customer relations rep's manager and this woman didn't even return my messages, which were 3 over the span of two weeks. 
I'm buying a vstrom 1000 and I am going to ride it to California in two weeks, after break in. I kinda want to go visit the Yamaha USA Corp headquarters and show them my new Suzuki. Thanks Yamaha

Sorry to bang on about this, but I'm afraid it's still not clear what Yamaha is or is not admitting is normal.  Could you please quote the exact response, word for word and in context from Yamaha. 
Also it's pure speculation on your part as to whether early motors are going to see issues.  The CP3 engine has been in production since 2014, first in the MT-09/FZ-09.  Many thousands if not tens of thousands of engines have been manufactured with many already reporting high mileages without problems.  The European motorcycle magazine Motorrad perform long term tests where they use a bike for 12 months and 50000 km (32000 miles).  At the end of the test they strip the bike down to every last nut and bolt and measure everything.  Their strip-down of the Tracer revealed that the engine was within manufacturing tolerances, i.e. there was no wear, the engine was effectively as good as when it left the factory.  Their test was performed in 2015 and my bike is from the same period so I have every reason to assume that my bike will perform just as well.
 
You also state that these issues "are not new to Yamaha".  On what do you base this statement?
 
CS

[captainscarlet]

I've added a picture clipped from the magazine I referred to in my previous post:
 

Obviously it's perhaps a little tricky to see but I would say it looks fairly similar to the OP's head.  The engineers who stripped down the motor reported the following. Exhaust valve seats are slightly wider with some evidence of burning.  The valves show virtually no evidence of wear or deposits.  A compression test showed virtually no loss of compression and that all valves maintained a good seal.  In summary the engine appears to be a very sound and solid piece of engineering.
 
CS
 
 

[vinnie]

Yes, I have a response from Yamaha calling it normal wear @ 38000 miles. It's pathetic. Do I think all engines are going to have this failure? No, probably not. But I suspect a run of them, especially earlier ones, are going to see issues. These issues are not new to Yamaha. They aren't doing their reputation any favors with how they treated me. I reached out to the customer relations rep's manager and this woman didn't even return my messages, which were 3 over the span of two weeks. 
I'm buying a vstrom 1000 and I am going to ride it to California in two weeks, after break in. I kinda want to go visit the Yamaha USA Corp headquarters and show them my new Suzuki. Thanks Yamaha

Sorry to bang on about this, but I'm afraid it's still not clear what Yamaha is or is not admitting is normal.  Could you please quote the exact response, word for word and in context from Yamaha. 
Also it's pure speculation on your part as to whether early motors are going to see issues.  The CP3 engine has been in production since 2014, first in the MT-09/FZ-09.  Many thousands if not tens of thousands of engines have been manufactured with many already reporting high mileages without problems.  The European motorcycle magazine Motorrad perform long term tests where they use a bike for 12 months and 50000 km (32000 miles).  At the end of the test they strip the bike down to every last nut and bolt and measure everything.  Their strip-down of the Tracer revealed that the engine was within manufacturing tolerances, i.e. there was no wear, the engine was effectively as good as when it left the factory.  Their test was performed in 2015 and my bike is from the same period so I have every reason to assume that my bike will perform just as well.
 
You also state that these issues "are not new to Yamaha".  On what do you base this statement?
 
CS

"This unit is out of warranty and this is a wear issue, not a defect with 38,000 miles. I will cover the cost of the head only as a one-time gesture of good will. Thanks, Joe T." 
 
I have spoken to people that work in the Yamaha dealership network and a higher up at corp yamaha, through a friend, and they were the ones that coined the term "sinking seats" and the higher up at yamaha had heard of a supplier issue with guides, since my exhaust valve guides were completely out of spec. This guy also doesn't return calls now and wants nothing to do with my bike.
 
Even the customer relations representative referred to the "sinking seats" issue, when discussing the new head part number and the tech had a conversation with her about it.
 
On a similar note, it's been fun defending the failure of my motorcycle to many of you. I've had a terrible 4+ months, dealing with this and canceling road trips every weekend. I'm sure many of you ride more than me, but I ride over 25k miles a year (I had 30k+ planned this year).
 
As I told Yamaha, I don't have any other vehicles... I've been riding a bicycle to work and getting friends to drive me places. Unfortunately, I don't make enough money to buy a new bike every two years because I spend almost all my income on travel and my bike. I invested in a "bullet proof" Yamaha, thinking it would last for a number of years and they have failed me on so many levels. That is the bottom line here.
 

[duhs10]

@vinnie they covered the cost of the head? Well atleast they did that.. sorry for all you inconvenience. Hopefully mine dodges this potential bullet.

[vinnie]

@vinnie they covered the cost of the head? Well atleast they did that.. sorry for all you inconvenience. Hopefully mine dodges this potential bullet.

They said they would on that sheet, but on the phone I was promised all the parts necessary and expedited delivery of the parts to get me back on the road.. Intake valves, exhaust valves (still on backorder), retainers, lifter buckets, springs, seals. 
The Yamaha rep told me on the phone it was all covered and then the dealer said it was all rejected, except the head. It didn't really resolve my situation, as I already bought a new head and could get one of those. I called the rep again and got her on the phone, through the general line and asking for her boss, and she told me she "made a mistake" and would get me all the parts for free now because she promised that. That was my last transmission from her...two weeks ago. She and her boss (Rhionna Castillio in California) didn't return my calls and the dealer couldn't get the parts. 
 
The rep in Georgia, Sydney Stuck, waited 5 days to tell me the head was approved and I had to chase her down to be lied to. She found out on June 1st and waited until June 6th to accidentally end up on the phone with me.  Terrible customer service. Possibly the worst I have ever seen. Just do the bare minimum and return calls.

[vinnie]

These issues are not new to Yamaha. They aren't doing their reputation any favors with how they treated me. I reached out to the customer relations rep's manager and this woman didn't even return my messages, which were 3 over the span of two weeks. 
I'm buying a vstrom 1000 and I am going to ride it to California in two weeks, after break in. I kinda want to go visit the Yamaha USA Corp headquarters and show them my new Suzuki. Thanks Yamaha

Print all of it out and have the mechanic/dealer commit to paper (email but letterhead preferred) their observations and the process as they experienced it, all organized into a folder. Some better pics would be nice. Then walk into the reception and insist on the head of customer relations come down and meet you (call ahead for appointment? or as high up the food chain you can go) and also show them your shiny new Zuk and comment for want of a measly couple grand they have lost a customer forever. I would have a second packet ready and address it personally to the CEO. He might not read it but his secretary probably will and again, it could end up being forwarded to the head of CR. You'd be surprised how accessible some CEOs can be though.

I am going to do this. My friends think I'm going to get the cops called on me, but I just want to speak to someone about my customer experience. I don't think sharing feedback and speaking to someone is customer relations is an absurd concept.

[betoney]

@vinnie Sorry to hear of all of your troubles, inconvenience and inexcusable customer support. I truly hope that there is some positive resolution for you at the end of the day.
 
The previous suggestions of taking this matter to the top of the chain do have some validity, especially now that it is in the open on a public forum.
 
I wish you the best of luck buddy, sorry to hear that you have to jump ship to Suzuki. Keep us updated on this.

[koth442]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. You've made this sound like they told you stick it up your arse. But they're giving you a head? That sounds generous to me.

[duhs10]

@vinnie .. are you in GA?

[pattonme]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa. You've made this sound like they told you stick it up your arse. But they're giving you a head? That sounds generous to me.

 
A new head does nobody any good if the valves and/or guides are not available. It appears to be a "known problem" at HQ in some circles. Hopefully @vinnie will be in contact soon with the defect investigation team. I don't think it's uncalled-for for Yam to ship a dozen complete heads from Japan and start doling them out for engines showing the same pathologies. With any luck it's probably just a single batch that's buggered.
 
If the parts were truly unavailable there wouldn't be any new engines being built and no XSR, FZ09, nor FJ09 being produced for distribution and sale. Clearly that is not the case.

[vinnie]

@vinnie .. are you in GA?

No, I live in Pennsylvania

[vinnie]

@vinnie Sorry to hear of all of your troubles, inconvenience and inexcusable customer support. I truly hope that there is some positive resolution for you at the end of the day.  
The previous suggestions of taking this matter to the top of the chain do have some validity, especially now that it is in the open on a public forum.
 
I wish you the best of luck buddy, sorry to hear that you have to jump ship to Suzuki. Keep us updated on this.

Thank you. It really hurts the wallet to need to buy a new bike, but that's what it's going to take to be back on the road this year.

[micah2074]

I would be really interested to know why the combustion area was changed and made differently between those two heads in the pictures a couple of pages back?

[captainscarlet]

On a similar note, it's been fun defending the failure of my motorcycle to many of you. I've had a terrible 4+ months, dealing with this and canceling road trips every weekend. I'm sure many of you ride more than me, but I ride over 25k miles a year (I had 30k+ planned this year).

Apologies if I have appeared unsympathetic, that is not the case.  I'm extremely disappointed in how Yamaha have handled your case and fully sympathise with your predicament.  The driving force behind my posts has been to try and establish, mostly for my own benefit, the scope and extent of the problem.  My own view based on the evidence that I have been able to gather is that this is an isolated case and simply bad luck. 
I hope that Yamaha deliver all the bits to you as they appear to have promised in your subsequent posts.
 
Good luck.
 
CS

[pattonme]

The driving force behind my posts has been to try and establish, mostly for my own benefit, the scope and extent of the problem.

um, this forum has less than 5500 users and it's membership is heavily concentrated to North America. Furthermore the OP is a class of two (?) with more than 35000 miles on his engine. So by that reckoning 50% of high mileage engines have failed or tend toward failure. You can't possibly be serious that one can draw any conclusions from forum posts in the general case let alone this one.