E10 vs. Non-ethanol fuel

[daboo]

1 minute ago, Wintersdark said:

Not using the premium that's asked for by the engineers who made it can result in increased engine wear or catastrophic failure.  That's kind of a big deal, and definitely not somewhere I'll risk saving the price of a cup of coffee once per week.

Ethanol vs. non-ethanol is different, however.  ...and also - with the potential exception of if you let your bike sit - there's no wear/damage issues with ethanol.  

Regarding the first point, it amazes me that us buyers know better than the engineers. 

I've found my lawn mower and generator have issues sitting over the winter with ethanol gas.  So since that's about all I can find for gas, I make it a point to ride my motorcycle almost daily in the winter, just to keep the gas fresh.  

It's not for feeling the air blow across my face, or to feel the bike respond as I lean into a corner.  It's just to keep fresh gas in it as preventative maintenance. 

Chris

[peteinpa]

I've been using E0 in my lawn tractor, chainsaw etc. forever. It's the only way to go.

As far as any FI vehicle it's just not as much of a problem as with carburetors. I guess if it sits REALLY long (years) there would be a problem but just the off season I've never had a problem.

 

 

 

[hlmiskelly]

I've been running 10% ethanol blend with a 93 octane rating in FJ-09.  While the non-ethanol 91 octane rated fuel is available, I've refrained from using it for this bike as the manual recommends premium fuel (with up to 10% ethanol).

But in my XSR700, for which the manual does not specify premium fuel (but does limit the ethanol blend to 10%), I do run the non-ethanol 91 octane rated fuel.

 

[betoney]

When I had my ECU flashed by 2wheeldynoworks, I called and asked about non ethanol fuel.  I was told that they specifically build their fuel maps using E10 premium 91 octane fuel.  They didn't say not to use E0 but warned that under specific elevations or barometric situations the E0 fuel could cause the bike to run overly rich.  Whether that could noticeably affect performance, I'm not sure.  YMMV. 

[keithu]

1 hour ago, hlmiskelly said:

I've been running 10% ethanol blend with a 93 octane rating in FJ-09.  While the non-ethanol 91 octane rated fuel is available, I've refrained from using it for this bike as the manual recommends premium fuel (with up to 10% ethanol).

The US manual recommends 91 octane or higher, so the non-ethanol 91 qualifies. There is no good reason to run the E10 93 unless it's cheaper. 

[2and3cylinders]

1 hour ago, keithu said:

The US manual recommends 91 octane or higher, so the non-ethanol 91 qualifies. There is no good reason to run the E10 93 unless it's cheaper. 

Of course I agree but isn't 91 considered "Premium"

[peteinpa]

This is for USA and no ECU tune only:  On the emissions sticker under the tail it says:  Fuel: unleaded gasoline 95 RON min. (why they use the European system on the USA sticker is beyond me).

95 RON is equal to 90 (R+m)/ 2  which is how our pumps are labeled Here. So any fuel 90 or higher is fine.

If you can get 90 or higher without ethanol, get it, you will be amazed.  

This winter my ECU will get the 2WDW treatment, then this will be null and void.  They tune for 91 octane (more ignition advance) and 10% ethanol. (richer)  Bike will probably run too rich with E0 then. 

My FZ-07 was tuned by 2WDW and I tried E0 a couple of times. No difference positive or negative. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by peteinpa

[keithu]

1 hour ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Of course I agree but isn't 91 considered "Premium"

That depends on the retailer. "Premium" is just a marketing term, and fuel stations can slap the "Premium" label on whatever they want. 

[GTO MIKE]

I'm so lucky to be able to fill up with non ethanol premium fuel at my local station.I have had zero problems and my bikes have always run great. Ethanol draws moisture , so is something to stay away from here in Ohio.

 

[Ride365]

43 minutes ago, GTO MIKE said:

I'm so lucky to be able to fill up with non ethanol premium fuel at my local station.I have had zero problems and my bikes have always run great. Ethanol draws moisture , so is something to stay away from here in Ohio.

 

Yup very true, I just try not to ever let any gas sit undisturbed in my tank for long. I will ALWAYS run a minimum of 91 in this bike unless I don't have the choice on the rare occasion, what gas to use is getting as bad as oil.

[2and3cylinders]

4 hours ago, keithu said:

That depends on the retailer. "Premium" is just a marketing term, and fuel stations can slap the "Premium" label on whatever they want. 

I said isn't 91 considered premium whatever works for you

[keithu]

56 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I said isn't 91 considered premium whatever works for you

Usually, yes. But @hlmiskelly said they don't run 91 octane fuel because they didn't think it qualifies as "premium." Maybe their local station calls 93 octane "Premium" and 91 octane "Super" or something similarly ambiguous, I don't know. Fuel branding and availability varies throughout the USA. I was just pointing out that the 91 octane fuel meets Yamaha USA's recommendations. 

[Wintersdark]

On 10/14/2020 at 3:49 PM, daboo said:

I've found my lawn mower and generator have issues sitting over the winter with ethanol gas.  So since that's about all I can find for gas, I make it a point to ride my motorcycle almost daily in the winter, just to keep the gas fresh.  

It's not for feeling the air blow across my face, or to feel the bike respond as I lean into a corner.  It's just to keep fresh gas in it as preventative maintenance. 

Chris

The reason this happens is that the ethanol will bind with moisture over time.  It's not a problem when you're riding a lot, but when you're bike (/lawn mower/etc) sits over the winter, the ethanol in the gas will bind with moisture and separates.  Hence running bad, and potentially causing some corrosion issues.  

[Wintersdark]

On 10/15/2020 at 8:44 AM, betoney said:

When I had my ECU flashed by 2wheeldynoworks, I called and asked about non ethanol fuel.  I was told that they specifically build their fuel maps using E10 premium 91 octane fuel.  They didn't say not to use E0 but warned that under specific elevations or barometric situations the E0 fuel could cause the bike to run overly rich.  Whether that could noticeably affect performance, I'm not sure.  YMMV. 

Hah I didn't call and ask first because I'm dumb, but I ran ethanol free, and my bike did indeed run overly rich (MT07, mind you, but yeah).  Called them, and they said exactly the same thing: that it's tuned for E10 as that's what's pretty much universally available.  Apparently, being at higher elevation (3400+ft ASL) really contributes too.  

[PhotoAl]

Thats good to know, I do a lot of log trips to the western states and am many times well over 3,400' elevation.  I've not noticed a difference but do put E0 in whenever I can.  I have a Honda Metropolitican that sometimes goes months without being started - I have two scooters and it is the least favorite due to the frightful acceleration from the mighty 49cc engine.  It takes a bit longer to start but after the first start it starts and runs very nicely.  The closest gas station is a Shell and have always used their gas.  Put regular in the scooters and premium in the Tracer GT.