koth442 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 They never took anything apart. The work order said check engine noise, then they called me when they said it wouldn't start and I told them not to continue. They turned the engine over while listening with a stethoscope according to the service manager. So they wouldn't have drained the oil prior to me telling them not to continue. In other news I started disassembling today. Need to pull the radiator then I should be able to get the valve cover off. Probably won't have time to touch it again until this weekend. Hopefully to see if the cams are still in time. If so then a leakdown test. They may have dumped the oil immediately after listening with the stethoscope. I'm sure the person calling you is not the same one doing the work. So in the game of telephone that extra little tidbit didn't get relayed. Did they comment about or show you the oil? '15 FJ09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksta43 Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 I asked about it because they put tape across the gas tank and wrote "no oil do not start". I asked the service manager about it and he said it looked normal but they didn't want to put used oil back in it. I didn't question it further at the time. And it probably was just to look for metal in it. The more you sit and think about a situation the more paranoid you get. Well I do anyway. Partly because it started and idled fine five minutes before I loaded it on the trailer and took it to them. The noises I heard were not death noises by any stretch. It started and idled normally as it always did. Maybe I'd rather think the dealer is crooked than to think my low milage motorcycle spontaneously broke internally out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmiller Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 What part of the world/country are you located in? I advise that you get the valve cover off by removing the tank, rather than trying to remove the radiator. Video and/or take thorough pictures in case this ends up being warranty claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksta43 Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 What part of the world/country are you located in? I advise that you get the valve cover off by removing the tank, rather than trying to remove the radiator. Video and/or take thorough pictures in case this ends up being warranty claim. I'm in the middle of Texas. The tanks already off. The FSM says to remove the radiator as well. Just going by what it says. Warranty is well expired. I'm on my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Nicksta43 - Dropping the radiator simply gets it out of the way and improves visual to the camshafts and timing marks. As Piotrek mentioned, it’s not 100% necessary. You’ll dribble oil on the ex manifold BTW, put a rag down before you pull the cover. Even though you’re out of warranty, you may be able to argue for some good will if you can blame a cam chain tensioner failure that falls within the range of the service bulletin. Depending on if a different shop will go to bat for you, or a polite “what are you going to do for me?” call to the mothership. You might get lucky. One member here was able to get the cost of a cylinder head good-willed to him. Better than nothing. -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koth442 Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 It certainly doesn't hurt to ask. Worst they can say is no. '15 FJ09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsmiller Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Mother Yamaha doesn't really like well documented YouTube videos showing failed engines due to no fault of the customer with only 10,000 miles. My guess is that if a valve seat failed or if a CCT failed, a YouTube video could carry a lot of weight in getting them to fix it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justplainbill Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 If you decide to replace the cam chain tensioner and are willing to risk an eBay Chinese knock-off to save money, I contacted the seller and they say it is for FJ-09 (though listed for YZF R3): https://tinyurl.com/ydyh42mw . Not advising, just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koth442 Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 I'm using an eBay manual CCT and it works just fine. Cost half as much as the APE. Manual CCT's are not exactly rocket science. I would have just machined one if I wasn't so damned busy. '15 FJ09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koth442 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 ...and my APE bolt needs TLC to stay corrosion free. Not a big deal really, but at that price I expected better. What size is the jam nut on yours? 17mm wrench to tighten it down IIRC. '15 FJ09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksta43 Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 Failed the leakdown test. #1 @ 10% #2 @ 55% #3 @ 65% I repeated the whole process and double checked everything but got the exact same result. Due to my noisy little compressor I couldn't really determine exactly where it was leaking. The plugs were tight and looked good to me, these have about 2k miles on them.#1 #2 #3 The cams seemed to be in time. The mark here indicates 125° before TDC correct? And these dimples in the cams line up with those marks correct? Looks like the head is coming off. Can I pull the head with the engine still in it should I go ahead and pull the whole thing out? The engine turned over fine by hand with no odd noises. I went ahead and checked the valve lash just because I was already in there. All the exhaust valves were tight. A .25mm gauge would not go except for #3 but that was snug. The intake valves were also tight except for #3 which was in spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhs10 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Was going to wait until 20k to check my valves, maybe i should do it sooner at 18k or so. @nicksta43 keep us updated on the progress... definitely following this thread. Can't believe that there was a valve train failure at 10k miles without some other factor like a failed CCT. You really should consider having another go at Yamaha... especially since there is a known defect that Yamaha has admitted to with the stock CCT. '15 FJ-09 w/ lots of extras... Fayetteville, GA, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Nicksta43 - Yikes. Ok. Before you pull the head, you mentioned that all of your exhaust valves were tight, correct? How tight? Did you measure with lobes facing away at around 180 degrees from the valve being measured for accuracy? Or did you measure according to the service manual and their description of how to check clearances? Your leakdown numbers of 55% etc, could be coming from tight valves if they are partially hanging open or have really bad carbon build-up in the valve seats. It may be worth adjusting the valves first to see if the leakdown number improves. Yes I believe the head can be R&Red with the motor in the frame. If you decide to go ahead and pull it to check for a bent valve or bad seats and don’t turn anything up, the worst it would cost you is time, a head gasket and possibly bolts (if they are one-time use, I’d have to check the book) If your leakdown is past the piston rings, then I’m afraid you’re screwed. You’ll need to pull it and split the cases, as the pistons get inserted into the cylinders from the bottom. Good luck and keep us posted. -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainscarlet Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Failed the leakdown test. #1 @ 10% #2 @ 55% #3 @ 65% I repeated the whole process and double checked everything but got the exact same result. All the exhaust valves were tight. A .25mm gauge would not go except for #3 but that was snug. The intake valves were also tight except for #3 which was in spec. Ok I'm going to ask some potentially stupid questions here so please don't be offended. I often pose these questions to myself when doing mechanical jobs ?. The leak down values seem a little strange to me. Values of 10% or less indicate an engine in great shape which means cylinder 1 is good. On that basis it seems strange that 2 and 3 would be as bad as they are. Here comes stupid question no. 1: did you rotate the crank between each test to make sure that each cylinder was at it's tdc with valves fully closed before testing? Regarding your exhaust valves, what were the actual values you recorded? You say that .25mm wouldn't fit, but which feeler gauge gave you the correct drag? The lower end of the exhaust valve tolerances is .26mm according to the factory manual. So if you're in that neighborhood then things are probably ok. I have read a number of forum posts where people have measured clearances on a factory fresh engine and found them to be around .15mm for the exhaust valves. This means that Yamaha is either building them tight or the manual is wrong; wouldn't be the first time, drive chain tension anyone? Anyway worth a triple check before you start pulling more out of the engine. CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksta43 Posted November 4, 2018 Author Share Posted November 4, 2018 I'm going to double check the valves this morning. My feeler gauge set only goes in .05mm increments and the thinnest I have is .10mm. For the exhaust valves .25mm wouldn't go but .20mm was loose except for #3 which the .30 gauge felt about right. The intake the .10mm wouldn't go on #1 and #2 but did on #3 on which the .15mm felt about right. I verified each cyl was at TDC on the compression stroke prior to running the leakdown test. I made sure the lobes were facing away from each other and stuck a long screwdriver in the sparkplug hole to verify TDC. I also rotated the engine one complete rotation by hand while testing cyl #3 just to be sure that it was completely closed. It was interesting to be able to see the intake and exhaust valves open and close on the gauge but disappointing in the final numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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