Cam chain tensioner or something worse?

[nicksta43]

Dealer strongly advised against doing a compression test. They are pretty sure piston valve contact has occurred was occurring based on listening with a stethoscope. They drained the oil however and said it looked normal. They did not put oil back in it so that's another thing I'll have to get. 
 
This is what the ticket says. 
 
I'm just so gutted by this. 
 
In total the bike ran for no more than two minutes after it started making a noise. 
 
I'll start pulling it apart but it's not going to be this weekend.  Maybe next week. 
 
 
I think I'll go ahead and pull the valve cover to check the cam timing first. 
 
Here it sits until then.

 

[nicksta43]

I have no idea if it is. The service manager said they asked if Yamaha would help and the reply was "absolutely not". He did say the CCT is bad. But he cannot replace it if the engine is not running.

[duhs10]

I have no idea if it is. The service manager said they asked if Yamaha would help and the reply was "absolutely not". He did say the CCT is bad. But he cannot replace it if the engine is not running.

They always say no at first... the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Just depends on how much it's worth to you.
 
2nd or 3rd instance of a valve failure that has been reported on the forum (assuming that's what happened here). I can't believe it. Yamaha has been the most reliable motorcycle brand for years. Really hoping these are isolated failures.
 
One more thing... how did he know the CCT is bad if they didn't open it up or run the bike?

[nicksta43]

I really don't have any will to fight Yamaha on this. It's pretty clear from the way the conversation went with the service manager that they are not willing to go to bat for me in any way whatsoever with the mother ship.
 
They have the records of every oil change, coolant flush, brake fluid flush, plugs and everything else that I've purchased from them since I bought the bike. And yet the salesman/owner that I dealt with when I bought the bike had to come over and make a little quip about my lack of maintenance. I'm assuming because I didn't have them do it even though I bought everything from them. I actually tried to have them sync the throttle bodies while it was in for the handlebar recall. They had it for a week, again it's my only vehicle, and when they told me it was ready and I went to pick it up they had not done it. They said I could leave it with them and they would get to it when they could.
 
Anyway the moral of that story is I'm over them. I have no desire to fight with them or Yamaha.
 
If it's a paperweight, it's a paperweight.
 
It was a terrific bike until Monday.

[nicksta43]

One more thing... how did he know the CCT is bad if they didn't open it up or run the bike?

 
 
He said the tech heard chain slap when it was turning over. I don't think they actually tested it. I think they are going off of the assumption that was the culprit.
 
Edit; I'd love to be in a position where I could have said continue with the teardown. Because ultimately no one knows exactly what happened until we get inside and take a look. The thing is if I authorized it and they determine that it wasn't due to the CCT then I'm on the hook for all of that labor, which I absolutely have no way of paying for. So the bike would be locked away in their shop, likely with a mechanics lein on the title. That's too big of a risk for me to take. I'm hopeful that I can set the cam timing, do a leakdown test and put a manual CCT on it and be back on the road. The last time I heard it run it was idling fine, it fired up just like it always did. It was just noisy.

[justplainbill]

Dealer strongly advised against doing a compression test. They are pretty sure piston valve contact has occurred was occurring based on listening with a stethoscope. They drained the oil however and said it looked normal. They did not put oil back in it so that's another thing I'll have to get. 

 
 
 Oops, I missed the entry where you plan to reset the valve timing, do a leak down test, replace the CCT and hope for the best. Sounds like a good approach but if that doesn't work out, then maybe there will be some value in what I wrote when I thought you were ready to dive into it:
 
Checking valve timing is a good place to begin while you wait for an FSM but use hand tools only (no starter motor) to rotate the crankshaft to limit further damage. 
 
Read up on doing a valve job. If the job is within your capabilities, get the cylinder head off and assess the damage. It will likely be limited to bent valves and maybe some damage to the valve seats, but inspect the pistons too. I wouldn't spend any money on CCT's or other parts until you know how bad things are.
 
If there's a  motorcycle machine shop in your town, consider having them do the valve job. You can order parts from an on-line discount Yamaha parts store to save money.  If there is no local bike machinist, some auto machine shops will do motorcycle work, especially if they work on foreign engines and have proper tools. They probably don't charge $98/hour and if they do, they are probably worth it. (I have a very high opinion of machinists, especially grizzled old ones.) 
 
Good luck.

[nicksta43]

Dealer strongly advised against doing a compression test. They are pretty sure piston valve contact has occurred was occurring based on listening with a stethoscope. They drained the oil however and said it looked normal. They did not put oil back in it so that's another thing I'll have to get.  
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
 
 Oops, I missed the entry where you plan to reset the valve timing, do a leak down test, replace the CCT and hope for the best. Sounds like a good approach but if that doesn't work out, then maybe there will be some value in what I wrote when I thought you were ready to dive into it:
 
Checking valve timing is a good place to begin while you wait for an FSM but use hand tools only (no starter motor) to rotate the crankshaft to limit further damage. 
 
Read up on doing a valve job. If the job is within your capabilities, get the cylinder head off and assess the damage. It will likely be limited to bent valves and maybe some damage to the valve seats, but inspect the pistons too. I wouldn't spend any money on CCT's or other parts until you know how bad things are.
 
If there's a  motorcycle machine shop in your town, consider having them do the valve job. You can order parts from an on-line discount Yamaha parts store to save money.  If there is no local bike machinist, some auto machine shops will do motorcycle work, especially if they work on foreign engines and have proper tools. They probably don't charge $98/hour and if they do, they are probably worth it. (I have a very high opinion of machinists, especially grizzled old ones.) 
 
Good luck.

 
 
On the other hand, if it passes a leakdown test I can be relatively sure that nothing has made contact inside and thus no need to pull the head correct? I'm not convinced it's as bad as they're saying it is.

[duhs10]

@nicksta43 ... best of luck to you. keep us updated and feel free to ask questions once you start digging into it.

[koth442]

On the other hand, if it passes a leakdown test I can be relatively sure that nothing has made contact inside and thus no need to pull the head correct? I'm not convinced it's as bad as they're saying it is.

Correct, a leak down test will confirm or debunk if valve to piston contact was made. If it passes, there's no need to pull the head. 
Good luck!

[gerdawg]

This is the EXACT reason I stopped using dealers for anything and the exact same reason they continue to go out of business.
 
I turned the key on, hit the start button, the bike didn't start....hand over the money. It's far cheaper and more reliable to invest in your own set of tools and do the work. At least then you'll learn something while at the same time knowing what was actually done to the bike. In either event good luck with getting it back together. If it were me and the compression check failed, it probably makes more fiscal sense to buy an ebay engine or source a spare at a junk yard for around a grand.

[steve]

This made for very bad reading, I do hope you are able to get it sorted.
 
I have a 2015, last service I was told my CCT was failing. It was out of warranty by a year, so I was expecting the worst. Workshop manager tells me he had a problem ordering the replacement part. He is well known to Yamaha UK, but was still pushed from pillar to post. Eventually YUK told him it was an extended warranty claim, the part and labour was on the manufacturers' account It wasn't clear what happened, but it appears mine was on the 'likely to fail' list and would only be sorted when it did.
Different arm of the same company, different part of the world, different outcome.
 
I have read folk not that far from me having to pay the full price. I have no idea knowing if it was the dealer's insistence over another who fobbed it off or not.
 
I have no idea on the service level of dealers in the US, the mere fact that so many riders become ' engineers ' smacks of a dealer network which is 'maybe rotten' ? I had no respect for my dealer at the time I bought mine, but they have worked hard to regain my trust.

[DavidS]

I would contact Yamaha directly and retell the story to them. Your dealer said you have a failing CCT, which makes sense given the noise you heard when you started it up. Any damage caused by the CCT, or by your dealer, should be covered by them. Wondering if the dealer did something that caused additional damage, since this isn't your typical CCT story.
 
But contacting Yamaha should be your next step... Good Luck, and keep us posted....

[nicksta43]

This is just me being skeptical but let me throw out a theory.
 
Bike is out of warranty. Dealer tries to sucker me in by saying it won't start and wants more money to pull it apart. I decline and say I'm coming to pick it up so they drained the oil to prevent me from starting it up in front of them and calling them on it. I can't think of any other reason why they would drain the oil and give the bike back to me with no oil in it.

[skipperT]

This is just me being skeptical but let me throw out a theory.  
Bike is out of warranty. Dealer tries to sucker me in by saying it won't start and wants more money to pull it apart. I decline and say I'm coming to pick it up so they drained the oil to prevent me from starting it up in front of them and calling them on it. I can't think of any other reason why they would drain the oil and give the bike back to me with no oil in it.

 
That is a bit strange, but the logical explanation is they were checking for any debris in the oil, or signs of a bearing going out, clutch debris smell, etc.
 
Should have filled it back up for you when they knew you were picking it up. Was the rest of the bike re-assembled?
 
-Skip

[nicksta43]

This is just me being skeptical but let me throw out a theory.  
Bike is out of warranty. Dealer tries to sucker me in by saying it won't start and wants more money to pull it apart. I decline and say I'm coming to pick it up so they drained the oil to prevent me from starting it up in front of them and calling them on it. I can't think of any other reason why they would drain the oil and give the bike back to me with no oil in it.

That is a bit strange, but the logical explanation is they were checking for any debris in the oil, or signs of a bearing going out, clutch debris smell, etc.  
Should have filled it back up for you when they knew you were picking it up. Was the rest of the bike re-assembled?
 
-Skip

 
 
They never took anything apart. The work order said check engine noise, then they called me when they said it wouldn't start and I told them not to continue. They turned the engine over while listening with a stethoscope according to the service manager. So they wouldn't have drained the oil prior to me telling them not to continue.
 
In other news I started disassembling today. Need to pull the radiator then I should be able to get the valve cover off. Probably won't have time to touch it again until this weekend. Hopefully to see if the cams are still in time. If so then a leakdown test.