$29,799................ and no potato, potato!

[betoney]

43 minutes ago, texscottyd said:

Resurrecting an old thread here...  interesting review of the LiveWire.   I remain intrigued, but highly skeptical.   

There are some tidbits in here I wasn’t aware of:  Liquid cooling sounds almost comical on an electric bike, but I get it due to the heat density of the motor.  The 553 pound weight seems way heavier than I would have expected, no doubt due to that huge battery.   0-60 mph in three seconds flat sounds great, but burning through 20% of the battery life in 13 miles?  That’s going to be a tough sell, even if it wasn’t a $30k motorcycle. 

On the plus side, it looks beautifully finished, and sounds like it could be a ball to ride.   We shall see... 

2020 Harley-Davidson LiveWire Review MC Commute

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We review Harley-Davidson’s gateway...

 

I also saw that review today, the limited range really surprised me.  I really don't understand what Harley is smoking, $30K?  The Zero SR/F is $19,500.  They must be trying to recoup the entire R&D budget with the first model year.

[Guest]

I think I could get into the idea of an electric bike.....one day, not quite yet.  If I did the last company I would look to for one would be HD.  The QC on the bikes that are their core product is terrible so why consider them for anything else?

[1moreroad]

So I saw @donk 's post and thought, I know we like to joke but iiis it really that bad? 

Almost. In 2014 BMW was the least reliable brand followed by Harley. Most reliable - Yamaha. But this is sad - 10% of Yamahas had a significant quality issue. If that's the best the industry can do, that's terrible!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fool.com/amp/investing/general/2014/02/17/is-harley-davidson-the-worst-motorcycle-money-can.aspx&ved=2ahUKEwj1r-2p0t3nAhVCU98KHegpC2AQFjAUegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0dReTFvueNtC59INEdmzDQ&ampcf=1

[johnmark101]

I just can't get excited about an electric motorcycle.  I suppose it would be very good as a commuter bike.  I have always had a love affair with the internal combustion engine.....they way it feels and sounds, as well as the design and engineering that goes into extracting the maximum energy from a mixture of fuel and oxygen.  I can ride 200 miles, refuel in just a couple minutes and be on my way again.  

Where I live Harley Davidson still has a large following of people who know little or nothing about motorcycles but love the whole image that Harley sells.  Lemmings. 

[skipperT]

2 hours ago, 1moreroad said:

So I saw @donk 's post and thought, I know we like to joke but iiis it really that bad? 

Almost. In 2014 BMW was the least reliable brand followed by Harley. Most reliable - Yamaha. But this is sad - 10% of Yamahas had a significant quality issue. If that's the best the industry can do, that's terrible!

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.fool.com/amp/investing/general/2014/02/17/is-harley-davidson-the-worst-motorcycle-money-can.aspx&ved=2ahUKEwj1r-2p0t3nAhVCU98KHegpC2AQFjAUegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0dReTFvueNtC59INEdmzDQ&ampcf=1

Not really that bad. 
That’s 1 in 10 based on a survey of 4424 owners, whereas H-D and BMW were 3 out of 10 in the same sample size. 
it also doesn’t break down which bikes had the issues - for example “Our Beloved Brand” probably sells more small cc bikes which are more cheaply made in other countries, rather than Japan made bikes such as our FJ/MT’s. Honda also sells millions more bike worldwide than Yamaha does.

google takes you to some interesting stats and articles - breaking the numbers down worldwide vs US also. 

Skip

[Coop]

I am beginning to accept battery powered watches...…….. 

[fddriver2]

I rode the Zero SR/F a couple months ago. It's an amazing machine. Scary quick and wheelie prone if you don't pay attention. The flat torque delivery of IIRC 140ft/lbs was a bit  of a handful. 

2020 Zero SR/F Electric Motorcycle || ZERO MOTORCYCLES

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Official Site of the 2020 Zero SR/F Electric Motorcycle - The most...

 

[1moreroad]

18 hours ago, skipperT said:

Not really that bad. 
That’s 1 in 10 based on a survey of 4424 owners, whereas H-D and BMW were 3 out of 10 in the same sample size. 
it also doesn’t break down which bikes had the issues - for example “Our Beloved Brand” probably sells more small cc bikes which are more cheaply made in other countries, rather than Japan made bikes such as our FJ/MT’s. Honda also sells millions more bike worldwide than Yamaha does.

google takes you to some interesting stats and articles - breaking the numbers down worldwide vs US also. 

Skip

That report cited Consumer Reports, a US magazine. The little bikes in East Asia and India didn't count. 

Our 15 FJs had 2 recalls on them, one on an engine that had been out several years. 

[Hyena]

Electric bikes are aimed towards a younger rider that wants to commute to work. Younger riders can't even afford a car let alone a 30k Harley product that Harley has no previous experience with the technology. Everyone I know that wants to go electric is looking at something from Zero, a company that has been in that sphere for over a decade. 

Harley needs to bring back Buell or create a new brand that completely deviates from any sort of Harley branding in order to attract the next generation. And, bring prices in line for that generation, too.  

[Toddtr]

On 3/6/2019 at 3:39 PM, koth442 said:

I put a short on HD stock... It's done nothing but go up since!

Ha ha 

[texscottyd]

3 years on, and the HD electric bike momentum seems to be picking up.  I will commend them for seeing it through over several years (unlike the Bronx that I still really want…) 

https://www.rideapart.com/news/585541/livewire-del-mar-sold-out/

[KrustyKush]

I’ve seen Prius mentioned. I remember when Prius hit the stores. They didn’t sell. It took another couple of years and skyrocketing gas prices to get Prius going.

as far as the Harley electric bike project, pretty sure they never expected to sell thousands of these early models. The project gives them ownership of the market space. Don’t see any electric Yamahas yet?  That’s right. Harley is already there. 

[angrygirafe]

My 2018 Zero S with 13kWh battery and level 2 charge tank has identical ranges, retailed for 18k and has all of TWO dealerships in Phoenix, the closest of which is 20 miles away. 
 

That Harley has 20 more horsepower, weighs 20lbs less, retails 3k cheaper, and has at least 8 dealerships in the valley, the closest 3.5 miles away. 
 

They still aren’t worth anything near the sticker price in my opinion, but dollar for dollar that Livewire has an equivalent Zero beat. 
 

You can get a fancier Zero, but at those prices (~22k) you might as well shell out a bit more for an Energica and get DC fast charging and a decent reliability record.