GT-tracer 900 vs Versys 650 (no ABS) as a first big bike

[AtoB]

Ongoing thanks to everyone for their points. Part of the big bike licence acquisition process in Malaysia is about 20hrs of training (biometric log in log out) going round an obstacle course on a kawa z650 (with Abs), followed by a test on that obstacle course.

You have to get through 6 obstacles when you take one of the three in total tests required for the licence (theory, slow skills obstacles, and road driving) : the obstacle course consists of  (1) complete a tight figure of 8 twice, around a double roundabout with a radius of about 6m; (2) drive onto and over a 'bridge' - a raised bit of concrete about 6 inches off the ground and 8 inches wide 10m long taking over 7 seconds to get over it - a lesson in balance and slow speed / clutch control, dragging the back brake, using revs to push the flywheel to keep balance. (3) wiggle through a series of cones, (4) emergency stop - hit About 40-50 km/hr then brake sharp (hello abs), and stop within a set space without stalling. (5) manoeuvre around a series of 90 degree turns within about 1.5 m wide road without putting your foot on the ground, (6) go over a series of 15 concrete bars on the road and not let your wheels move out of the two lines around them (generally easy, but even more so if you stand on the pegs a little).

All of it can be done in first gear. Takes about 8 mins to complete it all. I have now logged 15 hrs on this so have done the course about 80+ times and so far never dropped the bike. It's good for giving you first gear riding skills I guess. The forced, repeated practice has definitely developed some strong muscle memory at low speeds manoeuvring.

Apart from it being fun, I particularly like the fact that there are 4 different bikes that you practice on, all with quite different amounts of play in the clutch, front braking response, effectiveness of a back brake - so having to adjust to them is good.

There is also an 'on the road' course going around traffic lights, roundabouts, intersections - not on a real road, but full of newbies trying to drive their cars round it. About third gear max on this one.

To segway back into the point of this thread - do I feel this training prepares me well to take on gt or a versys? Not really, but it will have greatly reduced my chances of dropping the machine at low speeds (though at 187kg for a z650 vs 215 for the bikes I am considering buying, a little more to contend with). Also, the emergency stop routine shows the advantages of abs clearly to me. +1 for the tracer. The z650 is not to my liking comfort wise, so the sports tourer remains a good target.

After this though I think I need some more urgent training probably, some track time to get me more comfortable on higher speed cornering than I have done so far. Dirt bike recommendations I can also see the point of. Have read a twist of the wrist II,  and Motorcycle Roadcraft now so looking forward to putting those wise words into practice. With my learners licence now in the bag with the theory test passed, alarmingly I can now go out on the road solo so about to complete my purchase.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by AtoB
English

[wordsmith]

I'm very impressed with the technical nature of that test - should prepare almost anybody for the next steps in a safe riding career.

Best of luck with the purchase, and with riding it, whatever 'it' may be!

[jasonboy]

Unless you are buying a secondhand Versys CASH, I ll go for the GT tracer if I were you.

[harraseeket]

just sold my versys 650 for the 900 gt. but only because i could, not because i needed to. my versys was 2012, which didn't have ABS, not sure why the new ones don't where you are. and ABS was a big deal for me. all the extra electric gizmos like cruise control, etc, etc. are great. and, as i discovered during the break in period, below 5000 rpm, which is a high as you need to go, it doesn't feel that different than the versys - plenty of power but not hyper fast. so it is a relatively easy, tame bike at that rev range. on the street, if you are making a pass that requires all 115 bhp, you probably shouldn't be making the pass anyway. suspension is definitely an upgrade on the 900 gt.

but having said all that the versys is amazingly close for way less money , probably the best bang for your buck out there.

[AtoB]

Thanks harraseeket. Good to hear on both cases. Totally agree that if versys had abs, would be clear decision. No idea why it doesn't here. Nearest other bike here in seating comfort that does is the suzuki v-strom 650, but it definitely doesn't feel quite as comfy and very few around here, hence resale will be harder. Plus, i just dunno - not loving it at all. Slightly wider as well. Getting a lot closer on price to the gt also, so vstrom is a pass for me.

[betoney]

On 4/12/2019 at 1:25 PM, chitown said:

ABS, TC, and modes aren't purchase decision points for me until everything else is more or less equal.

I agree with you on this, they didn't sway my decision one way or the other, they just happened to come with the bike.  What ever happened to learning basic rider skills?  Electronic aids rule every facet of our daily lives, from auto tuned music to voice activated TV's to cars that parallel park for you, you dont have to know how to do anything any more, let the computer take care of that for you.

 

[Odge]

The fj/tracer is way too responsive. When people say it "only" has 115 horsepower, they have totally lost perspective. The acceleration is Instant, and a bump in the road in standard mode can make the bike lurch forward. Sure it doesn't compare with 200 mph supercharged kawi, but the extra power on a modern superbike is ridiculous on the road anyway. You are buying a bike to commute, not drag race hayabusas. From my own experience you can start with a bigger bike, but when I switched down to a 350 overseas was when I really learned how to ride a motorcycle, not just sit on a huge motor with wheels. The 350 was light, I could fling it around. When I returned home, I found that the new skills transferred to my 750.

Go for the Versys. It seems like an excellent starter machine that could satisfy a veteran rider if he wasn't concerned with looking cool or compensating for real or imagined deficiencies. 

Keep in mind, a Kawi Z1  900 was considered a monster- and it was. It was an exciting and sometimes hairy machine to ride. A noob or veteran rider could easily get into trouble. It only had 83 horsepower claimed, yet it was the king. A 650 versys would blow it away by almost any measure, and yet be safer. 

I don't know when 900 cc wheelie machines became learner bikes.

[wordsmith]

1 hour ago, Odge said:

The fj/tracer is way too responsive.

It's all about throttle control.   On the Tracer this is made somewhat easier thanks to the 'B' or soft or rain mode.

Edited April 27, 2019 by wordsmith

[AtoB]

Soooooo....
I did this. Got the tracer. Wanted to wait till I had clocked my first 1000km on it before i reported back, to try and minimise the cognitive dissonance getting into my reflections. And also see if I survived

After purchase and use, my exact question I realised, essentially boiled down to whether I should get  a bike with abs/TC and actually the QS vs one without. The tracer is clearly a lot more powerful than the versys as well, but that power is optional and quite easy for me at least to decide to not use. Boy is it a lovely machine. I have enjoyed every minute on it and every minute thinking about riding whilst off. One of those 'would I always be disappointed if I hadn't made this decision' decisions? Definitely.

Mode B is the big answer to getting going with it. I have done the odd ride in standard recently and can see the move happening soon-- no big drama at all in the difference between the two. I actually think it might be a bit smoother when pulling away in standard.

So far I am up at blue belt skill level from a motojitsu.com point of view. Haven't dropped the bike (will probably tomorrow😀), but come close when trying to nail the 16ft u turn. Still working on that. I have crash bars installed also now as well as the Shad 59x top box (love it!!) . I have done at least 500 emergency stops whilst practicing. And Abs is totally and utterly the right choice. Plus in Malaysia when it rains it is often  like the  sea coming down out the sky. And the bike performs beautifully in these conditions. Feels planted.

What is interesting is how easy I have found the switch from my 10bhp automatic scooter to the 115bhp big bike. Almost easier to steer with any speed. At slow speeds definitely harder, but  practicing on the motojitsu skills is proving invaluable on the road at traffic lights etc and particularly splitting which is de rigour here in Kuala Lumpur. The big bike is unsurprisingly way better for the 30km motorway commute. I bought the thing thinking it was going to feel a lot safer than a scooter with the ability to drive more positively, and it has definitely panned out that way. That plus the complete fully armoured gear I now wear.

Should my view on these things inform others making similar choices, - well only maybe. I am clearly very inexperienced compared to most and my mindset is at the very end of the scale re safety first (eg. I wear full armoured gear all the time in the consistent 90+ f heat), which might not match everyone's sensibilities. But can the tracer work as a first bike - so far so good as long as you practice all the time and try and get better and safer everyday. Any big bike is clearly a weapon and needs to be respected as such, but tameable. Are there better options - inevitably, though I honestly think in my local market it is a fair choice. And the scooter practice for a year has been surprisingly helpful.

 

 

[vincep]

Congrats.  You have more training than 99% of the riders in the US.

[Stinky]

AtoB...I live in Malaysia as well!!! Penang. I bought my Tracer 900 GT on Friday and did an around the island group ride yesterday. I was in second position and the leader was on a Versys 650. I was VERY impressed by the Versys. It had plenty of acceleration and it did really well in the mountain road on the west side on Penang.I started the ride with 13km on my bike and finished with almost 200km on the day. I was really not pushing the bike for two reasons: 1) I am new to the bike and have not ridden road bikes that much. 2) I am gently breaking the bike in. I stayed under 5,000 RPM. I am doing Fast Eddie's motojitsu practice as well. It is a great tutor.

Just buy some chalk and find an empty road or parking lot.....just practice.

I am originally from The United States and I wish the riders there could see what "scooter traffic" looks like here in Malaysia. It gives most riders (me included) a heart attack for the first week or so. I was on a Honda 125 Wave for 6 months and learned the rules of the road on that. I was an avid off road rider in the US and my last bike was a Yamaha WR 450. 

Best of luck and come on up to Penang...There is almost always some type of group ride going on here with all skill and experience levels.