Engine Braking....

[tktplz]

I went on my spring trip to The Hill Country in Texas last week and weekend. Wednesday thru Sunday and right at 2,000 miles. Touring and the bike is amazing. Even with approx. 99 liters of luggage on the bike it is flickable, comfy, capable. Was a little miffed at Texas DOTD...... The chip-Seal in the corners is so old there isn't much chip left in the tire tracks thru the corners. Lots of black tar and just a few chips of rocks. Gives you the spaghetti feel in those corners, weird feeling but still OK grip. Not sure if the bike has a really light flywheel or what but I was disappointed in the amount of engine braking. Didn't notice it last fall in Arkansas in the Ozarks. Wasn't pushing 10 to 12 grand last fall more like 7 to 9,000 RPMs and didn't notice but at 10 to 12,000 modulating the throttle for power and brake and not much brake. Feels a bit freewheeling off the throttle at those RPMs. Not at all what I'm used to with the ole ZRX1100 or ZX11 Ninja. Does anyone else notice this? Also have to get the suspension done, RIGHT AWAY!!!! Front shocks used up all but 3/4 of an inch of all the travel on the front! Again didn't notice it last fall in the Ozarks but wasn't pushing with my friends as I did here. Was a bit surprised going thru curves at 70-75 and in 2nd and it didn't feel at all like I was pushing the motor just not much engine braking. Will have to change my riding style a bit. Doing a few trips this spring so we will see what I figure out. Besides the road conditions and the lack of engine beaking had a blast. Can't wait for more trips this year.

[betoney]

6 hours ago, tktplz said:

Not sure if the bike has a really light flywheel or what but I was disappointed in the amount of engine braking. Didn't notice it last fall in Arkansas in the Ozarks. Wasn't pushing 10 to 12 grand last fall more like 7 to 9,000 RPMs and didn't notice but at 10 to 12,000 modulating the throttle for power and brake and not much brake. Feels a bit freewheeling off the throttle at those RPMs. Not at all what I'm used to with the ole ZRX1100 or ZX11 Ninja. Does anyone else notice this?

Also have to get the suspension done, RIGHT AWAY!!!! Front shocks used up all but 3/4 of an inch of all the travel on the front! Again didn't notice it last fall in the Ozarks but wasn't pushing with my friends as I did here.

Was a bit surprised going thru curves at 70-75 and in 2nd and it didn't feel at all like I was pushing the motor just not much engine braking.

I dont normally ride up to 10-12k rpm's,- usually 7-9k range.  I have a fair amount of engine braking (not excessive) to the point that I use my front brake a lot less than I used to.  With the assist/slipper clutch, I find that when going corner to corner in the twisties that I just drop a gear and it sets me to the desired speed.

I'm pretty sensitive to feeling engine braking, I dont like much and some bikes are much worse than others.  My engine/drive mods are; ECU flash w/ closed loop active tune, APS value set to 12, added slipper clutch, +2T rear sprocket,  and free flowing Scorpion slip-on.  I'm sure all of those affect the feel of engine braking when you chop or roll off the throttle.

I agree with you about suspension, it completely transforms this bike!!  I cant imagine aggressive riding in the twisties with stock suspension.  There are a lot of good recommendations on this forum. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by betoney

[nicksta43]

Last spring I rode down to the hill country. Spent about 40 minutes chasing a guy on an FZ-09 that obviously had knowledge of the road and slightly more skill/balls than I did. I was pushing as hard as I felt comfortable and I had no issues whatsoever with the suspension nor the engine breaking characteristics. It's the best handling bike I've ever owned. That's not saying much as my only other bikes were a 1982 Honda 450 custom and a 2013 Sportster. But the stock suspension is more than capable enough for me. Maybe if I had more experience on sport bikes I could relate to what you guys are feeling. But as it stands I've never even contemplated upgrading the suspension. 

Edit; I completely agree with you about the roads though. Texas has no clue how to build it maintain a road. But again I moved here from the riding nirvana of East TN. Just wish I had the FJ back then.

Edited April 14, 2019 by nicksta43

[tktplz]

I don't normally ride up to 10-12k rpm's,- usually 7-9k range.

After looking under my GPS seems like it's 9-11,000 not 10 to 12,000 from where the RPMs looked to be on the quick glance. I have the plate with the ram mount ball on top so your mounted item, for me a 5 inch GPS is across the top over the instrument cluster. After moving it today to wash the bike I see it's more 9 to 11,000 RPMs. Still, the motor seems to spin freely there and surprised me that it was going 70-75 MPH no problem in 2nd.  I'm used to quite a bit of engine braking. Not used to grabbing brake at all. Maybe a touch of the rear brake for a feeling of balance going into a curve is about it. Old habit I have. This will be a new experience using the front brake and trying to modulate throttle with the same hand. We'll see how it goes. Have a couple of trips to the Ozarks planned this spring. 

[tktplz]

On 4/13/2019 at 10:37 AM, betoney said:

I'm pretty sensitive to feeling engine braking, I dont like much and some bikes are much worse than others.  My engine/drive mods are; ECU flash w/ closed loop active tune, APS value set to 12, added slipper clutch, +2T rear sprocket,  and free flowing Scorpion slip-on.  I'm sure all of those affect the feel of engine braking when you chop or roll off the throttle.

Betoney, I saw this video and is this the front braking your used to? Saw this and thought I'd try using this and putting it in my routine for riding since the FJ seems to me to have less engine braking. 

 

[betoney]

@tktplz - That is a great video, thank you for sharing it.  Its kind of like counter steering, - its not something I think about or make a decision to do, its just like an instinct while I ride.  I definitely set corner speed by braking up to, and then accelerating through the corner, so I guess "trail braking" is the method I use.  And just like in the video, I control the radius with the throttle, accelerate to widen and roll off to tighten the arc.

[bugie]

A common mistake people make is they are too high up the gears so the revs are way too low to allow the bike to engine brake, or, make rolling off throttle effective. On the flip side you also don't want to be too high up the rev range that you hit the rev limiter mid corner

[Trey]

3rd or 4th gear in A-Mode seems to provide the most engine breaking in the twisties for a smooth roll-off and right back-on...

[mellow]

11 minutes ago, Trey said:

3rd or 4th gear in A-Mode seems to provide the most engine breaking in the twisties for a smooth roll-off and right back-on...

Same here but in B-Mode for me.. I like the smoother throttle response.. A and STD are a bit to twitchy for me.  Just came back from AR this past weekend and had some very nice spirited riding following a local RS rider.  We probably could have stepped it up a notch or two but it's always good to have a little extra ability in your pocket in case you need it.

Edited April 23, 2019 by mellow

[tktplz]

On 4/19/2019 at 3:41 PM, bugie said:

A common mistake people make is they are too high up the gears so the revs are way too low to allow the bike to engine brake, or, make rolling off throttle effective. On the flip side you also don't want to be too high up the rev range that you hit the rev limiter mid corner

Yes Bugie, I agree on the gear and RPMs. 3rd and 4th gear is great for high-speed sweepers from 70 thru 120 MPH. 2nd gear is what I was talking about. In the 6-7,000 range pretty good engine braking. On up in the RPM range, 7-11,000 and the motor/RPMs it seems the engine is on ice. I haven't done the slipper clutch kit yet but that will just make it easier to downshift without skipping the rear tire. But hey, I'm in 2nd, what am I going to do go to 1st? Ha Ha! I know it has 3 instead of 4 cyls. but I'm not sure if the flywheel is so much lighter or if the tune on the reflashed ECU is giving it a little gas off the throttle. I know it doesn't burble like my ZRX1100 or my ZX11 ninja did when off throttle. I have a couple more trips planned in Arkansas and we'll see how it goes. Still loving this engine and still don't know where the rev limiter is......I still haven't found it!