Help Me Decide

[chitown]

29 minutes ago, phpaul said:

There is only one place in the county (that I'm aware of) that you can even GET non-ethanol fuel.    Plus the owner's manual specifically says E10 is acceptable fuel for the bike.

While very limited, you can still find it at some pumps even in Cali. Usually it's high octane and expensive. VP Racing branded stations, some Unocals, Love's (mostly truck stops in the hinterlands), etc. See sites/apps like pure-gas.org.

In some localities you can buy small expensive cans of it where lawn equipment is sold (Lowe's, HD etc) but with electric and living in a condo these days don't know if they still do.

There's always avgas but it has lead.   

But none of this makes no nevermind to me. I'm still maintaining cages and bikes that have run fuel containing ethanol for 15+ years and things mentioned above have been non-issues for me. My only issue with Cali gas over the years is that in carbed bikes it's easy to have passage issues when it turns. Aggressive jet cleaning has been required in those cases but learned my lesson and will add stabilizer if a vehicle is expected to sit for long periods.

 

Edited April 30, 2019 by chitown

[fURYOS]

35 minutes ago, phpaul said:

There is only one place in the county (that I'm aware of) that you can even GET non-ethanol fuel.    Plus the owner's manual specifically says E10 is acceptable fuel for the bike.

 

48 minutes ago, phpaul said:

There is only one place in the county (that I'm aware of) that you can even GET non-ethanol fuel.    Plus the owner's manual specifically says E10 is acceptable fuel for the bike.

Although your manual says you can run on E10, your manual probably doesn't specify how long you can store the bike with E10 in it.

In my experience any small engine that may sit for a few months or more is better off to have 100% Dinosaur fuel in it.

 

[betoney]

@phpaul  Look at Pure-gas.org  it breaks it down by state. There are hundreds of locations that offer non-ethanol fuel. 

[nicksta43]

1 minute ago, betoney said:

@phpaul  Look at Pure-gas.org  it breaks it down by state. There are hundreds of locations that offer non-ethanol fuel. 

And absolutely none near me. 

My bike vary really sits for more then two days at a time anyway. Well except for when it's broken. But the seven months it recently sat didn't effect it.

[phpaul]

In older engines with rubber (or other non-metal)  components not designed for ethanol, yes, it's a problem.

Mine sat from September of last year until April of this year and started right up, no issues.  

Do I wish I could go back to straight gasoline at normal prices?  Absolutely. 

Do I worry about E10 in modern machinery?  Nope, not a bit.

BTW, the 91 octane non-ethanol fuel I burned a couple of tanks of made absolutely no discernable difference in performance or mileage.  The only difference I saw was the dent it put in my wallet.  YMMV of course (arrrrrr.....humor!)

[texscottyd]

@Stonegoat - First and foremost, welcome to the forum.   There’s lots of great information here, and plenty of Tracer-biased opinion.   

Here’s my thought on your situation:  If you are looking for reliable, cost-efficient transportation, something like a CB500X will be hard to beat.   It’s an appliance:  Effective, works as designed, and goes about it’s business efficiently & unobtrusively.   But, if you are looking for that soul and character that makes a motorcycle a fun, engaging, and inspiring experience, the Tracer is the way to go.   It’s probably more expensive to operate (fuel, insurance, etc), but damn... it’s a REALLY fun motorcycle.  

An honest assessment of what you want & need will steer you in the right direction.   

Good luck, and congratulations in advance for whatever you choose as your next bike.  

-Scott

[runnerhiker]

Stonegoat, I get about 50 mpg on my Tracer, the onboard computer says 55 mpg, but my calculations say 50.

It requires premium fuel because it has an 11:1 compression ratio, that's one of the way they get 105+ HP out of a 850cc engine.  I am not surprised the phpaul can run regular and be ok because modern engine have sensors and computers that can compensate for lower octane and be very forgiving under less than full load.  But if you want to extract peak performance and fuel mileage from the motor, you need premium fuel.

[Stonegoat]

So I've been reading other forums and there are several people with the GT that say the throttle response is still really twitchy, and a ECU flash is required to smooth the fueling?  Thoughts??

 

[chitown]

3 hours ago, Stonegoat said:

So I've been reading other forums and there are several people with the GT that say the throttle response is still really twitchy, and a ECU flash is required to smooth the fueling?  Thoughts??

 

Another topic where there's very little in the way of objective measurement. One rider's twitchy is another rider's "you just need to not put the death grip on it" lol.

The first 09 based bikes got panned for their fueling. The FJ-09 was supposed to be better, and the GT better yet, but other than my bike have only reviews and subjective descriptions to go by. 

My stock FJ-09's fueling was abrupt compared to say, my '05 FJR, '09 Versys, or pretty much any of my carb'd bikes. But no worse than my KTM SuperDuke. SuperDuke owners online were about 50/50 on whether it was twitchy or not. Never flashed the SuperDuke and it was a track bike so if throttle control was an issue a high side was always standing by to let me know.

Was a flash required to enjoy my FJ-09 ridden rather aggressively? Nope. Did I flash anyway? Yes, eventually but smoother fueling was only one factor in that decision (you may want to flash for exhaust change, removing restrictions, other features etc). Did the flash make fueling buttery smooth? Nope. Better but not butter.  

At this point I question whether Yamaha can do FI as well as other manufacturers.This probably won't be my last Yamaha but if they don't improve it will be a factor in my next buying decision. 

  

Edited May 2, 2019 by chitown

[Stonegoat]

10 minutes ago, chitown said:

Another topic where there's very little in the way of objective measurement. One rider's twitchy is another rider's "you just need to not put the death grip on it" lol.

The first 09 based bikes got panned for their fueling. The FJ-09 was supposed to be better, and the GT better yet, but other than my bike have only reviews and subjective descriptions to go by. 

My stock FJ-09's fueling was abrupt compared to say, my '05 FJR, '09 Versys, or pretty much any of my carb'd bikes. But no worse than my KTM SuperDuke. SuperDuke owners online were about 50/50 on whether it was twitchy or not. Never flashed the SuperDuke and it was a track bike so if throttle control was an issue a high side was always standing by to let me know.

Was a flash required to enjoy my FJ-09 ridden rather aggressively? Nope. Did I flash anyway? Yes, eventually but smoother fueling was only one factor in that decision (you may want to flash for exhaust change, removing restrictions, other features etc). Did the flash make fueling buttery smooth? Nope. Better but not butter.  

At this point I question whether Yamaha can do FI as well as other manufacturers.This probably won't be my last Yamaha but if they don't improve it will be a factor in my next buying decision. 

  

Do you have the GT?  How does the fueling compare to the older iterations?

[betoney]

3 hours ago, Stonegoat said:

So I've been reading other forums and there are several people with the GT that say the throttle response is still really twitchy, and a ECU flash is required to smooth the fueling?  Thoughts??

 

I have a '15 FJ09 and the factory fueling was quite abrupt.  I have since flashed the ECU, adjusted the APS value and installed an FTECU Active Tune.   The fueling is MUCH improved, enough so that I had them flash it to start in A mode, which I ride in 100% of the time now.

[Stonegoat]

1 minute ago, betoney said:

I have a '15 FJ09 and the factory fueling was quite abrupt.  I have since flashed the ECU, adjusted the APS value and installed an FTECU Active Tune.   The fueling is MUCH improved, enough so that I had them flash it to start in A mode, which I ride in 100% of the time now.

Thanks for the input.  I'm wondering if the  fueling abruptness issues have been resolved in the 2019 Tracer GT model??  I really don't want to have to flash the ECU, especially as other motorcycle options with sensible fueling are available.

[StealthAu]

11 minutes ago, Stonegoat said:

Thanks for the input.  I'm wondering if the  fueling abruptness issues have been resolved in the 2019 Tracer GT model??  I really don't want to have to flash the ECU, especially as other motorcycle options with sensible fueling are available.

The 2018/19 GT is noticeably less snatchy than the older CP3 bikes. Not necessarily rectified via fuel maps, more so via throttle restrictions in the tune. 

 

[vincep]

@stonegoat, welcome.  Get the GT.  With 35 years in the dirt you have more skills than 95% of the riders out there.  Methanol discussion is not an issue for new bikes.  Yes I buy ethanol free 87 when I see it, but do not go out of my way.  Throttle is fine.  GT is the first jap bike in 30 years for me and is great.

I am sure the Honda is great to.  Not many bad bikes out there anymore.

Good luck.

[mike]

In A mode the throttle is a little more abrupt than my Versys 1000 but in B mode it is less sensitive. As I get used to it I ride in B or standard around town and in A when playing in the twities. I only have 2000 miles on the bike and I am getting more and more comfortable with the throttle, even in A, with more experience. The advise to remove as much play in the cable as possible makes sense and will be my next step in searching for Nirvana.

 

I would not advise running away from this bike due to any worry about this issue. This thing is WAY too  much fun!