600cc Class Supersports

[superfist]

So what are peoples opinions on the 600cc class?  Do you think it's dying? might make a resurgence?   Will you miss it?

 

So Yamaha revamped the electronics and styling with the 2017 R6 and I think they did an amazing job.  Kawasaki followed up with a bunch of new electronic features on the 2019 ZX6R and it's restyle is also great.  Honda and Suzuki are a bit behind at the moment, and I wonder if they're just going to let them die.   I really love that Kawasaki added a bunch of features and then also dropped the price to 9,999 for the non abs model!  That makes the 600 class affordable again and widens the gap of the "I'll just save another 3k and buy a 1000cc bike"

 

I personally think that as the small bike displacements hit 400 and 500cc that the 600 class will move to a 750 class.  With the Daytona 765 on the horizon and the GSXR-750 waiting for a refresh, the class is waiting for a revival.  It will likely take AMA or another racing body opening a 750 class as the 600cc sale decline.

 

As someone who hasn't owned a super sport, I'm considering a 600cc class bike in the future.  I look at the HP/Torque numbers though and wonder if I'll be disappointed in the performance vs the FJ-09 and if I should just get a 1000cc.  The draw for me is that I LOVE the scream of the 600s hitting that 14-16k rpm and I also like the idea of riding the nuts off of one, in contrast to babying the throttle on a litre-bike.  I'm going to test ride a few this summer and see how I like them.  I kind of want one before they disappear and the ZX6R is looking really tempting.

[norcal616]

AMA killed affordable racing by doing away with 2strokes...

 

Food for thought: Buy a used MT-09, it is a serious track bike with decent suspension... We know the motor loves to spin rpms(starts redline at 12.5-13k RPM) it packs liter bike power(120whp) in a nimble sub 400# package, has legs to hit 150+ mph... Plus it's a motor your already familiar with/ nearly identical riding ergos as the Tracer900... Use Woolich Race Kit/tune to get all the fancy race goodies such as launch control, QS up and auto-blipper down shifting... What else is missing??? 

Edited May 15, 2019 by norcal616

[Duke]

2 hours ago, superfist said:

As someone who hasn't owned a super sport, I'm considering a 600cc class bike in the future.  I look at the HP/Torque numbers though and wonder if I'll be disappointed in the performance vs the FJ-09 and if I should just get a 1000cc.  The draw for me is that I LOVE the scream of the 600s hitting that 14-16k rpm and I also like the idea of riding the nuts off of one, in contrast to babying the throttle on a litre-bike.

It’s more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow, so I would choose the smaller displacement and lighter machine.

That’s just an opinion based upon where I would spend my money. It’s also based upon my level of ability and experience. You might choose differently, and there is nothing wrong with that. 

[chitown]

Thank goodness Kawasaki hasn't got the news that the 600s are dead. That new 636 kicks serious butt and they lowered the price. I lust after one. The more practical side of me would probably wait for the new Gixxer 750 to come out then snatch up a used one for a lower price. 

The slow bike thing is fun and instructive. My SV650 with Gixxer front end was a ton of fun on the track, super inexpensive, cheap to operate, and taught me a lot.

[superfist]

3 hours ago, chitown said:

Thank goodness Kawasaki hasn't got the news that the 600s are dead. That new 636 kicks serious butt and they lowered the price. I lust after one. The more practical side of me would probably wait for the new Gixxer 750 to come out then snatch up a used one for a lower price. 

The slow bike thing is fun and instructive. My SV650 with Gixxer front end was a ton of fun on the track, super inexpensive, cheap to operate, and taught me a lot.

Yes!  The R6 was at the top of my potentials until I saw the new 636 with the lower price tag.  The fact that it's good on both street AND track might be what convinces me.  I was also looking at used Daytona 675R models as well, but aftermarket support and parts availability at a reasonable price seems much more prevalent on the Japanese bikes.

 

I think I'd take the new Street Triple of the FZ-09 if I were to go with a standard.  But I'd like something different.  My real dilemma is whether to get the T7 or a Supersport next.  I'm leaning towards the Supersport and revive the KLR-650 from the dead.

[Duke]

1 hour ago, superfist said:

I'm leaning towards the Supersport and revive the KLR-650 from the dead

KLRs die? That’s contradictory to everything I’ve read on the internet, so it can’t possibly be true. 

[superfist]

40 minutes ago, Duke said:

KLRs die? That’s contradictory to everything I’ve read on the internet, so it can’t possibly be true. 

They do after a day of riding along riverside trails and run through a puddle in the public dirt parking lot on the way out to discover that some 4x4 truck had dug the "puddle" deep enough to sink the KLR in water to thigh height (just above airbox intake).   I mean... the KLR got me out the other side before it died, but man...

 

So I disassembled the motor, got new gasket kits and cleaned everything up.  Nothing looked damaged until I started reassembling and realized one of the camshaft caps had cracked.   You can't by the camshaft caps separate, since they're mated to the head and a head assembly with camshaft caps was around 1200 when last I checked.  I'm tempted to try to get the crack welded and throw it together, but I'm not sure if that's a part I'd trust a weld on.

Edit: So yeah, it takes extremes to make a KLR die.  Maybe we shouldn't say it died, but murdered by extremes might be more appropriate.

[Duke]

Interesting story for sure. I’m actually still surprised that it had that much damage. Guys drown motorcycle engines pretty regularly, and generally get away with pulling the plug to clear the combustion chamber and changing the oil. I’m not saying that the engine doesn’t suffer some damage, but they can usually be made to run.

Not that it makes any difference whatsoever, because your engine obviously didn’t like ingesting water. Really a bummer no matter what. 

[koth442]

I like 600's. I've got a GSXR 600 trackbike. I don't think the squids are going to stop buying 600's anytime soon. 

@superfist, whenever I get down to Road Atlanta, you're welcome to meet up with me and ride in beginner group while I ride in intermediate. Or make friends with someone on a 600 and swap keys sometime. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how punchy a 600 can be.

[betoney]

On 5/15/2019 at 6:43 AM, superfist said:

 I look at the HP/Torque numbers though and wonder if I'll be disappointed in the performance vs the FJ-09 and if I should just get a 1000cc.  The draw for me is that I LOVE the scream of the 600s hitting that 14-16k rpm and I also like the idea of riding the nuts off of one, in contrast to babying the throttle on a litre-bike.

I also had the same thoughts when coming from an FZ1 to the FJ09, I was expecting to be disappointed with the power - absolutely not the case.  I was also looking at an FJR and after test riding and just pushing one around the showroom floor, the smaller, lighter bike is so much more attractive to me.

Like @Duke stated - " It’s more fun to ride a slow bike fast than to ride a fast bike slow, so I would choose the smaller displacement and lighter machine."

 

[superfist]

2 hours ago, koth442 said:

I like 600's. I've got a GSXR 600 trackbike. I don't think the squids are going to stop buying 600's anytime soon. 

@superfist, whenever I get down to Road Atlanta, you're welcome to meet up with me and ride in beginner group while I ride in intermediate. Or make friends with someone on a 600 and swap keys sometime. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how punchy a 600 can be.

Which track day group do you ride with?

I was actually looking at N2 recently because Yamaha has some demo events listed at Road Atlanta and Roebling.  It looks like all I'd need to do is get a tailor to sew the circumference zipper in my Alpinestars jacket to my leather pants so they can attach.  Getting my first track day has been a goal for a while, but I've been hesitant to take the FJ-09.

 

@betoney absolutely it's a blast to ride a slow bike fast.  I think the lower overall cost of the 600's is also appealing, especially if I start doing track days where a crash is likely at some point.

 

[koth442]

53 minutes ago, superfist said:

Which track day group do you ride with?

I was actually looking at N2 recently because Yamaha has some demo events listed at Road Atlanta and Roebling.  It looks like all I'd need to do is get a tailor to sew the circumference zipper in my Alpinestars jacket to my leather pants so they can attach.  Getting my first track day has been a goal for a while, but I've been hesitant to take the FJ-09.

 

@betoney absolutely it's a blast to ride a slow bike fast.  I think the lower overall cost of the 600's is also appealing, especially if I start doing track days where a crash is likely at some point.

 

I'm indifferent to trackday organization. The track is what matters. I'll be sure to let you know when I finally make it down to RA or Roebling. It could be 2020 before I do. You're welcome to take my GSXR for a spin whenever I finally do though!

[superfist]

32 minutes ago, koth442 said:

I'm indifferent to trackday organization. The track is what matters. I'll be sure to let you know when I finally make it down to RA or Roebling. It could be 2020 before I do. You're welcome to take my GSXR for a spin whenever I finally do though!

That's really generous and I appreciate it.

[maximo]

On 5/15/2019 at 6:43 AM, superfist said:

I also like the idea of riding the nuts off of one, in contrast to babying the throttle on a litre-bike. 

There's no question that it's a blast to ride a slow bike fast. I get more giggles and grins riding my SV650 in the mountains and on the track than any other bike I've owned. 

[keithu]

The 600cc supersport is a classic victim of its own success. When the class started in the '80s these middleweight sporty bikes were built to a price, so there was a significant cost jump from a 600 to a 750 or beyond. But they were front line race bikes that almost anyone could afford.

As the 600s moved upscale to be more race competitive, the prices got closer to bigger bikes, so today the typical street only rider is going to look at an R6 or GSXR600 and decide it makes sense to spend just a little more for the liter bike.

In terms of spec and price, the FZ6R and CBR650 are closer to what the 600 class used to be. But those aren't used in racing so many buyers will dismiss them as "not real sportbikes."