600cc Class Supersports

[superfist]

7 hours ago, keithu said:

The 600cc supersport is a classic victim of its own success. When the class started in the '80s these middleweight sporty bikes were built to a price, so there was a significant cost jump from a 600 to a 750 or beyond. But they were front line race bikes that almost anyone could afford.

As the 600s moved upscale to be more race competitive, the prices got closer to bigger bikes, so today the typical street only rider is going to look at an R6 or GSXR600 and decide it makes sense to spend just a little more for the liter bike.

In terms of spec and price, the FZ6R and CBR650 are closer to what the 600 class used to be. But those aren't used in racing so many buyers will dismiss them as "not real sportbikes."

 

Yeah, I completely agree with you and was thinking the same thing when I was looking around.  I think Kawasaki is trying to bring back the affordability aspect with the new 2019 ZX6R bringing electronic package improvements and a quickshifter and pricing it at $9,999.   However, they want another 1k for ABS equipped models.

 

I was hoping for a refresh of the GSX-R750, but it looks like Suzuki is discontinuing the model.  If they had just updated the electronics package and added an ABS option, I'd be all over it.  I think I might just wait a few years for the Daytona 765 to get released.

 

[keithu]

It should also be said that many 600 supersport bikes used to be versatile street bikes. Think of the CBR600f2, ZX6E, YZF600... You could race those bikes or sport tour on them. I don't think many people would want to ride cross country on a modern R6. 

[keithu]

19 hours ago, superfist said:

I think I might just wait a few years for the Daytona 765 to get released.

 

At some point I'd like to get something sportier as a second play bike. But depending on my daily mood swing I may want a Thruxton, Daytona 765, R1, MV Agusta F3, FTR1200, or Vitpilen 701. This probably seems like an eclectic group to cross shop. 

[superfist]

8 hours ago, keithu said:

At some point I'd like to get something sportier as a second play bike. But depending on my daily mood swing I may want a Thruxton, Daytona 765, R1, MV Agusta F3, FTR1200, or Vitpilen 701. This probably seems like an eclectic group to cross shop. 

Yes!  I totally do the same.  Everything from "When is the T7 going to be released in the states?!?" to "Oh, an R1/ZX10R is definitely what I want!" with everything in between.

 

I recently discussed with my wife that I need 3 motorcycles.  A cruiser so she's comfy if she wants to ride, a proper dual sport that can crunch miles without complaint and a sport bike for track days and mountain rides.  The FJ-09 is like having an AMAZING multi-tool that does everything you could ask, but then still wanting "the right tool for the job" despite the fact that my riding skill means it probably doesn't matter in any way.

[keithu]

I'm not sure three is enough motorcycles.

[superfist]

7 minutes ago, keithu said:

I'm not sure three is enough motorcycles.

Oh, I know it isn't.  But it's a number that I thought would sound reasonable and my wife didn't reject it, so...  😃

[fr8dog]

I like that FTR1200. I'm leaning towards something in the Multistrada lineup. I've ridden my son's 950. Nice. Mine handles better, but his is more comfortable. Also want to test ride BMW 1000 XR. Seems like an FJ-09 on steroids.

 

[texscottyd]

9 hours ago, keithu said:

... I may want a Thruxton, Daytona 765, R1, MV Agusta F3, FTR1200, or Vitpilen 701. This probably seems like an eclectic group to cross shop. 

Trust me, the constantly evolving short list in my head is even more diverse.  The two that have ‘stuck’ consistently are a Kawasaki H2 SX SE and a Honda Monkey...  try rationally explaining that cross-shop list to an impartial observer.  

My solution:  Buy them both!  I’m blessed with an incredibly tolerant wife... 

[kmev]

3 hours ago, keithu said:

I'm not sure three is enough motorcycles.

There is always room for one more bike....

[norcal616]

No pedal bikes eh??  

[kmev]

2 hours ago, norcal616 said:

No pedal bikes eh??  

There's eight in my basement. 

[maximo]

18 hours ago, superfist said:

I recently discussed with my wife that I need 3 motorcycles.  A cruiser so she's comfy if she wants to ride

I've found 3 bikes to be the right number. I had a big cruiser, but ironically my wife asked me to sell it and buy a comfier bike for her. Her riding position, slightly reclined, with her knees propped up high by the tall footpegs, and the wide bike splaying her apart, she often commented that I should replace the pegs with stirrups, because every ride left her feeling like she was getting an exam. 

[texscottyd]

@superfist - We've diverged a bit from your original question about the 600 class, but after reading back through the thread I had a few random thoughts to stir into the mix.  My current track-prepped Kawasaki 636 is a 2003 model, so admittedly my ownership experience is a bit dated.   The most recent 600 I've ridden in anger was a 2012-ish model R6 when I came out of my racing retirement to run an endurance race with a friend...

That said, the evolution of the middleweight super-sport bike has an interesting history that explains how we ended up where we are:  From standard model bikes with a sporting option (CB-F, GPz), to dedicated early sport models (VF500 Interceptor, FJ600, CBR600 Hurricane), through the golden era of the 1990's Japanese arms race (CBR600F2/F3/F4/RR, R6, 636, GSX-R600), to the current 'last man standing' hyper-focused supersports (the newest R6, ZX6, GSX-R600), they've become increasingly performance-focused & less all-around competent.   No fault of the manufacturers, as that's what the market demanded.   I ground through a bunch of 600s during my racing days, always trying to figure out what would be the best 'appliance' for the next season.  

But as the motorcycle market has tightened and club-level road racing has lost it's draw (at least here in the US), it's interesting to see what's happening.   I actually think Honda has it right with the new CBR650F/R models, IF you are looking for a street bike and not a race bike.  As much as you would like to think you can unleash a 600 - any 600 - on the street, it realistically isn't the case...   To do any of the modern 600 supersports justice, you have to experience them on the track.   Just my $0.02 worth; feel free to flame me at will. 

Which brings me back to why I love my little FJ so much:  Plenty of usable power everywhere; light enough to be nimble and reponsive, and (with enough $$$ thrown at suspension and big brakes) a damn competent real-world sport bike in its own right.  I still have a Mille R in the garage, and can hang the lights back on my 636 if I so desire, but for 95% of the riding I do, the FJ is still my go-to machine. 

[keithu]

Well said. And I think your post begs the question: if you can't possibly appreciate an R6 on the street, why bother with an R1? 

My brain says the R6 is fine. But some other part of me says, "Effing wheelies man!"

Not rational. But if I were truly rational I would have just bought a Prius.

[texscottyd]

2 hours ago, keithu said:

Well said. And I think your post begs the question: if you can't possibly appreciate an R6 on the street, why bother with an R1? 

My brain says the R6 is fine. But some other part of me says, "Effing wheelies man!"

Not rational. But if I were truly rational I would have just bought a Prius.

That’s why I LOVE motorcycles... they’re not a rational purchase!  

Don’t think I’m doxxing liter bikes on the street:  Despite the reality that even a 600 is ‘under-utilized’ on the street, I would still rather have a ludicrously over-powered R1 than an R6.  It’s just stupid, excess, hooligan fun... something I whole-heartedly support.     And the new world order of advanced electronics & rider assistance makes it more accessible for the masses.   

Be honest:  When is the last time you had the FJ/Tracer at WOT for more than three full gears?  Short bursts of R1 ‘stupid power’ trumps an R6 in many street scenarios... just be careful, because ‘over there’ becomes ‘right here’ very quickly when you’re playing with modern liter bike power.   Honestly, this is a great time to be alive.