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betoney

Is abrupt fueling unique to Yamaha?

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To those who own or have ridden other brands, is the stock fueling as harsh and abrupt as Yamaha?  I have ridden several models of Kawasaki, Honda and Aprilia and have not experienced anything close to Yamaha's jerky throttle. 

Since the inception of the CP3, reviews praise the motor but always mention terrible fueling, my previous Gen II FZ1 had terrible fueling as well.  Since owning Yamaha I have had to adjusted my riding style with much smoother throttle input that I don't need to use when I ride other brands.

Is this unique to Yamaha?  Do any other manufacturers have these issues?


***2015 Candy Red FJ-09***

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My '08 FZ6 was butter smooth... 

Now that I have developed muscle memory for the FJ throttle it doesn't seem so "abrupt"... in fact I feel like I ride it just as smooth as any other bike I've owned. 2 Kawis and 2 Yamahas...

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'15 FJ-09 w/ lots of extras...

Fayetteville, GA, USA

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25 minutes ago, duhs10 said:

Now that I have developed muscle memory for the FJ throttle it doesn't seem so "abrupt"...

^^Exactly this^^ - Now that I have developed muscle memory for "____"

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***2015 Candy Red FJ-09***

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I haven't owned enough Yamaha street bikes to answer, but the jerky throttle is kind of annoying... 


'15 FJ09

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This is my 1st fuel injected bike. All others were carbs. i have adjusted how I ride it and have sometimes even gone to "B" mode on tight twisties to smooth the throttle even more. It was annoying at 1st but as a human I have adapted, resistance is futile....

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Besides, no matter how much stonk my engine has I'm still an old, slow guy. Takes more than horsepower to fix that.

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I had a 2000 Triumph TT600 with famously bad EFI performance at first. Throttle response was harsh, and at certain RPM it would get confused and jerk a bit. Fortunately the issues were fixed with a free ECU update from Triumph.
 

The FJ-09 isn't nearly as bad, but no this isn't a problem unique to Yamaha.

 

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I think it's a little bit Yamaha and a lot bit CP3.  The euro brands seem to have really nice fueling (My old Triumph Street Triple,  The Triumph Tiger 800 I test rode multiple times was so smooth it was boring and anemic, and now the BMW S1000RR).

 

My friends Ninja 1000 is smooth, but CAN be jerky.  Suzuki GSX-S1000 s & f also felt smooth to me, but had reports of abrupt throttling in early reviews. 

 

Like others have said, if you develop the muscle memory to be smooth with the CP3 engine, then everything else will feel buttery smooth in comparison.  I think Yamaha has the most abrupt roll-off injector cut though, and that contributes to the poor feel of the fueling because a roll off and quick roll back on will feel very jerky.

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My carb'd Yamahas (and other brands) were buttery smooth so guessing this refers mainly to FI.

'05 FJR, stock fueling, buttery smooth. '09 Versys was too. But consider the nature of those bikes vs my two high torque FI bikes, '08 KTM SuperDuke and '15 FJ-09. 

Definitely notice the transitions to on/off throttle more but not certain how much is rider vs bike. Would probably need more experience with high torque FI bikes from other brands to judge. Don't seem to have the same opinion of "jerky" as the general population on message boards maybe that's just my throttle control or maybe I don't know what I'm missing :)

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On 9/21/2019 at 10:15 AM, betoney said:

To those who own or have ridden other brands, is the stock fueling as harsh and abrupt as Yamaha?  I have ridden several models of Kawasaki, Honda and Aprilia and have not experienced anything close to Yamaha's jerky throttle. 

Since the inception of the CP3, reviews praise the motor but always mention terrible fueling, my previous Gen II FZ1 had terrible fueling as well.  Since owning Yamaha I have had to adjusted my riding style with much smoother throttle input that I don't need to use when I ride other brands.

Is this unique to Yamaha?  Do any other manufacturers have these issues?

On 9/23/2019 at 8:20 AM, superfist said:

Like others have said, if you develop the muscle memory to be smooth with the CP3 engine, then everything else will feel buttery smooth in comparison.  I think Yamaha has the most abrupt roll-off injector cut though, and that contributes to the poor feel of the fueling because a roll off and quick roll back on will feel very jerky.

I don't have my Tracer yet, but this was a problem with my MT07 too.  When you flash the ECU and have the injector decel cutoff disabled, it goes away completely and this makes tight twisties so much easier as you don't risk upsetting balance when shifting from closed throttle to open.  

I really struggled for the first while when riding super aggressively with that.  The solution otherwise is just not closing the throttle *completely* when you're going to want to start back into the throttle mid-corner.  

 

But seriously, at least for the MT07, shipping your ECU to 2WDW (or flashing it yourself) fixes it completely.

 

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For me, Yamaha has always had the most "direct feeling" connection to the motor- now with the new "CP" style motors that firing order gives the feeling the engine is always ready to go/hyper active caged animal... I have had to retrain the right wrist and riding style- stay on the outside and carry the speed past the conga line on the inside 😁...

With the other traditional firing orders and traditional counter balance, the feeling of connection was easy going...

I agree to some extent fed regs/rules of market areas make the littte annoying niggles some people find with fueling to drive em nuts... Closed Course fueling is 100000% how any fueling should be from the factory but reality says otherwise...


2012 wr250f - C-class 30+ age group
2015 fz-07- Hordpower Edition-80whp
2015 fj-09- Graves Exhaust w/Woolich tune by 2WDW @120whp

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Compared to Ducati Yamaha’s fueling is terrible.  Most Ducati’s are spot on out of the box. As a rabid Ducati owner that mostly rides Yamahas I can tell you this, reflash the Yamaha ECU for $200 and you still have a lot of money left over between the purchase price plus if you think Yamaha’s fueling is terrible try the cost of ownership of a Ducati. Both brands are great bikes and they all have good and bad points. 

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I rode motocross bikes until almost 40 and never owned a street bike. Whenever I did ride a street bike, I was always underwhelmed by how tame they felt and never had any desire to have one. 3 years ago my GF bought me a Ducati Scrambler for Christmas. The Scramblers were abrupt as hell and I really liked that. I had a lot of fun and quickly came to love street bikes. After a year of Ducati's warranty issues and getting dusted by an Audi getting on to the highway, I decided I needed a different bike and bought an XSR900 which I loved. It was totaled within 6 weeks and so I replaced it with a new 2017 FJ 09 which I also love. I never felt they are abrupt. Open class motocross bikes are abrupt. I think these bikes hit hard and that's what make it so much fun to ride. If you want less abrupt there's always Harley.

BTW....since owning the Scrambler my motorcycle addiction is full on again. I tell my GF that I got over it but that she restarted it so she can never complain about it. Fortunately she never does although recently she asked me if I had a GF on the side because I'm out riding so often. The truth is that I just love riding this bike and my her. I mean how can you not love a women that gives you a brand new motorcycle for Christmas?  

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This is somewhat common among fuel injected bikes.  Fuel is basically turned off when you close the throttle on deceleration.  When you ease it back open the fuel comes back on and causes the abrupt on / off response.  I read somewhere that manufacturers do this to decrease emissions for the EPA compliance cycle.  This makes sense,  since there can be no emissions when there is no fuel, thus reducing overall emissions for a particular test cycle.  A good ECU reflash ( such as one from Ivan's Performance Products) will eliminate the "fuel cut" as well as performing many other things such as fuel and ignition timing changes which improve throttle response.

My 2013 Ninja 1000 had the same problem as my Tracer GT.  Had both ECU's reflashed by Ivan......both are now silky smooth.

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There is noting like spending a day riding with friends in the grip of a shared obsession.

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There IS a noticable fuel economy change when you disable that.  It's not huge, but it's noticeable if you manually keep track of fuel used/miles traveled (it often won't really show in the bike's fuel consumption display).  

It's worth doing though, IMHO - you don't lose any get up and go (you're not changing the immediacy of the fueling) but rather you're reducing the engine braking so there's less sudden shift from engine braking to accelerating.  

I'm curious how this will apply with the slipper clutch on the 2019 Tracer GT, though - maybe it won't be necessary?  I'll know in a couple hours :)

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