Wobbles in low and high speed in latest tracer 2019

[Tracerview]

Hi! is there anyone still experience wobble in high speed? Or did yamaha already solve the front lightweight to cause wobbles? 

[norcal616]

3 hours ago, Tracerview said:

Hi! is there anyone still experience wobble in high speed? Or did yamaha already solve the front lightweight to cause wobbles? 

It's not even a wobble... Many variables can cause this so called "tiny shimmy".. It's not tied to one thing... For me it was as simple as moving the forks up in the clamps a tiny bit... Others swear by a tire pressure, other swear it's the handguards or the owner had death lock grip on the handlebars, some swear it cured by upgrading suspension, others swear it's the icky stock tires... Never heard of the bike having any type of wobble/shimmy at low speeds... This only happened when one goes past 115mph or so... yes I noticed a slight shimmy at high RPMS ( mine is set to 9.75k rpms to trigger the shift light) when using the QS I can feel the front end trying to pull the front wheel off the ground-***gotta be due to power of the bike and the gyroscopic forces of the engine at that speed***that's makes a slight shimmy effect for me... When the rpms come down a bit after banging thru the gears the effect goes away... For me the bike is stable up to 155mph after moving the forks up a bit...

Later years 2018+ got an extra 2" in swingarm length... 

Edited October 30, 2019 by norcal616

[Wintersdark]

I haven't topped out my 2019 Tracer GT yet (it's been snowy and -10C most of the time since I got it, so I've only been riding at sane speeds) but in my limited fair-weather time I've had it to 200kph shimmy free.... As long as I'm loose on the bars.  I find if I lean on the bars, buffeting wind pressure on my shoulders and arms from the windshield tends to introduce a bit of shimmy, but loosening up fixes that ... and is how I should be riding anyways. 

Dunno if this applies to anyone else - I'm a 6'4" 300lb guy, so not exactly an average rider - but that's my experience.  

This far, it's felt very stable and planted at high speeds; much moreso than my MT07 did.

[RexDangerVest]

On 10/30/2019 at 5:24 AM, Wintersdark said:

I haven't topped out my 2019 Tracer GT yet (it's been snowy and -10C most of the time since I got it, so I've only been riding at sane speeds) but in my limited fair-weather time I've had it to 200kph shimmy free.... As long as I'm loose on the bars.  I find if I lean on the bars, buffeting wind pressure on my shoulders and arms from the windshield tends to introduce a bit of shimmy, but loosening up fixes that ... and is how I should be riding anyways. 

Dunno if this applies to anyone else - I'm a 6'4" 300lb guy, so not exactly an average rider - but that's my experience.  

This far, it's felt very stable and planted at high speeds; much moreso than my MT07 did.

Winter, Did you upgrade your springs/shocks at all?

Have you tested static and rider sag?

I am going to buy in the spring (currently 300lbs, but expect to be 250lbs by then) and I am already researching my upgrades...

I believe the setup on the bike is for someone lighter than us. Each time I have visited a dealer and sat on a bike there was near zero static sag. So they must have really cranked in the preload.

 

Rex

Edited November 2, 2019 by RexDangerVest

[Wintersdark]

1 hour ago, RexDangerVest said:

Winter, Did you upgrade your springs/shocks at all?

Have you tested static and rider sag?

I am going to buy in the spring (currently 300lbs, but expect to be 250lbs by then) and I am already researching my upgrades...

I believe the setup on the bike is for someone lighter than us. Each time I have visited a dealer and sat on a bike there was near zero static sag. So they must have really cranked in the preload.

 

Rex

I'm really not a suspension guy, to be honest.  This is my first bike with a fully adjustable suspension, as all but my last bike (MT07) were old 80's machines with tired old shocks.  

Realistically, I'll probably need HD springs(I say this because I just expect it being 300lbs, not because of a problem), but I need to find someone who can help me out because I don't know what it should feel like.  I set up rider sag on the rear of my MT07, and need to on this (front and rear) but I don't know what the target is.

What I can say is that where it currently is - rear +2 clicks in from stock (this was not a showroom model), I don't bottom the suspension and it feels pretty decent.  Planted cornering, no bounce.  I was immediately comfortable leaning hard in corners and hanging off it.

But, again, I may just not know what I'm missing.  

[norcal616]

Yes the typical Yamaha test rider seems to be a featherweight... General consensus is if your under 160# suited up, yeah you could get away with suspension upgrades depending on your preference for suspension handling... I myself am 175# suited and yeah the suspension was nothing special but it was lacking for my preference mainly in the rear shock Dept...

A majority of owners here are above 250# and found the suspension lacking...that's from the rider, cargo boxes, etc really pushing the comfort of the suspension... Also it don't really help a great majority of us are ex racers, MX riders, racers, canyon carver's who, or traded in heavy bikes with great suspension for this little Tracer 900...

Quite a few solutions to the suspension... But I believe you should at least put some miles on the bike before committing to spending money on stuff cuz the internet says so... 

Some people where happy with just replacing the oil or just fork springs and buying a basic aftermarket rear shock... 

Some( myself- Stoltec DIY kit) went with fork springs, oil and a fork cartridge upgrade ( fix the dead leg with adjustable damping- Traxxion Dynamics, KTech, Ohlins or re-valed shim stack- Stoltec) and a rear shock such as Penske double click or KTech razor R or Ohlins- mainly 20mm fork piston kits are the kits with adjustable damping in the dead leg for example...

Others went even further to run a GP style 25mm fork piston kits with a uber fancy rear shock... Running a steering stabilizer bar, the whole 9yds...

 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by norcal616

[johnmark101]

My experience is that the GT is very stable.  No vibration or "shimmy" felt in any way in all sorts of riding conditions and speeds up to 120, which is as fast as I have been.  I am 175 pounds before putting on my riding gear and set the sag at 35 millimeters on both ends.      

[Wintersdark]

15 hours ago, norcal616 said:

Yes the typical Yamaha test rider seems to be a featherweight... General consensus is if your under 160# suited up, yeah you could get away with suspension upgrades depending on your preference for suspension handling... I myself am 175# suited and yeah the suspension was nothing special but it was lacking for my preference mainly in the rear shock Dept...

A majority of owners here are above 250# and found the suspension lacking...that's from the rider, cargo boxes, etc really pushing the comfort of the suspension... Also it don't really help a great majority of us are ex racers, MX riders, racers, canyon carver's who, or traded in heavy bikes with great suspension for this little Tracer 900...

Quite a few solutions to the suspension... But I believe you should at least put some miles on the bike before committing to spending money on stuff cuz the internet says so... 

Some people where happy with just replacing the oil or just fork springs and buying a basic aftermarket rear shock... 

Some( myself- Stoltec DIY kit) went with fork springs, oil and a fork cartridge upgrade ( fix the dead leg with adjustable damping- Traxxion Dynamics, KTech, Ohlins or re-valed shim stack- Stoltec) and a rear shock such as Penske double click or KTech razor R or Ohlins- mainly 20mm fork piston kits are the kits with adjustable damping in the dead leg for example...

Others went even further to run a GP style 25mm fork piston kits with a uber fancy rear shock... Running a steering stabilizer bar, the whole 9yds...

 

 

The 2019 GT has an upgraded suspension.  I often wonder in these discussions if people are coming from a comparison of the non-GT/older models suspension or not? 

I mean, I ride hard, and mine feels pretty decent all around.  Or is the GT's suspension also considered poor?

[betoney]

31 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

The 2019 GT has an upgraded suspension.  I often wonder in these discussions if people are coming from a comparison of the non-GT/older models suspension or not? 

I mean, I ride hard, and mine feels pretty decent all around.  Or is the GT's suspension also considered poor?

The forks are different between the older FJ and newer GT, single active leg with rebound adjustment vs. rebound and compression adjustment.  The biggest difference between the older and newer shock is remote preload adjustment vs. manual adjustment using a spanner wrench.  Whether the shock itself is in any way improved is anybody's guess.

[roadrash83]

 Put some miles on the bike @Wintersdark. Then take the bike to a shop that SPECIALIZES in suspensions. Have them set the stock suspension up . Should be less than $100.00 and see how you like it and listen to there advice. 

[RexDangerVest]

On 11/2/2019 at 2:17 AM, Wintersdark said:

I'm really not a suspension guy, to be honest.  This is my first bike with a fully adjustable suspension, as all but my last bike (MT07) were old 80's machines with tired old shocks.  

Realistically, I'll probably need HD springs(I say this because I just expect it being 300lbs, not because of a problem), but I need to find someone who can help me out because I don't know what it should feel like.  I set up rider sag on the rear of my MT07, and need to on this (front and rear) but I don't know what the target is.

What I can say is that where it currently is - rear +2 clicks in from stock (this was not a showroom model), I don't bottom the suspension and it feels pretty decent.  Planted cornering, no bounce.  I was immediately comfortable leaning hard in corners and hanging off it.

But, again, I may just not know what I'm missing.  

There is no way the stock Suspension (new GT or ANY Other stock motorcycle) is ready for a 300lb rider... No matter how you adjust it. It may feel fine, but if you had the appropriate springs for your (Our) weight it would feel even better and certainly be safer. You just dont know because you have not experienced it.

Go to youtube and search out Dave Moss. He has several different channels I believe. A good place to start is Two Clicks Out. If you watch a bunch of them you will learn what to look for and how to get it. And he will tell you why it is unsafe without the proper setup. Here are some I have saved. Just keep watching and watching and then it will click. And NO, you do not need to join anything, just watch all the free stuff. Of course, if you can afford it. Pay up, I bet he is worth it.

And here is a post from Batgirl on this site that I just read. She had Dave work on her bike.

https://www.tracer900.net/topic/7802-trip-to-the-dragon-and-bike-mods/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FeZJRiAXRk&list=WL&index=93&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzz5wX7P-5c&list=WL&index=92&t=0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qA3Ja7yxcQ&list=WL&index=94&t=0s

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by RexDangerVest
Added sentence and another link

[Wintersdark]

Yeah, I've watched most of his stuff.  Really educational, but sadly much is "go for a ride, see how it feels, then adjust to suit" which isn't too helpful.

I know how to set rider sag (though I don't yet know what it should be on our suspension, nor how one determines that), and I understand what compression and rebound *do*, but as I've never ridden a bike set up for me - but have ridden hundreds of thousands of miles over a quarter of a century - I've no frame of reference for what I should have.

From there, even if I where to just assume I needed to replace springs, I would have no idea which to get, or really how to shop for them at all.  

I've been looking around, but there's no specialist suspension shops for street bikes around here - there was one, but it's closed for some time.  And the shop I bought the bike at was just "I turned up the preload a click, should be fine." Not confidence instilling.

[betoney]

1 hour ago, RexDangerVest said:

Go to youtube and search out Dave Moss.

^^Agreed^^  Dave definitely knows his stuff.  👍

[norcal616]

12 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

Yeah, I've watched most of his stuff.  Really educational, but sadly much is "go for a ride, see how it feels, then adjust to suit" which isn't too helpful.

What I do is this: 

After I have achieved my sag: I put a piece of painters tape near each adjustment with how it's currently set...

Next I only make one adjustment at a time such as adding a few clicks of compression- go for a ride, not just round the block... Make a mental note or write down how it felt... Then I adjust the setting back to original and then take out 2 clicks and go for a ride, again take note... you can go more clicks to see how it really works when you add/take out let's say 5-6clicks, etc...

Now put that back to original- go to another adjustment and repeat the process and vice versa... 

From there with all your notes and see that yea- I really liked how it behaved when I did this one adjustment... From there you can fine tune the other adjustments doing the same process since... 

By the time your done you should have an idea how your suspension behaves to your riding style/conditions... 

[betoney]

7 minutes ago, Wintersdark said:

From there, even if I where to just assume I needed to replace springs, I would have no idea which to get, or really how to shop for them at all.

Even if all you did was to get the proper springs for your weight, you would have a much improved ride. 

The proper spring for you is based on your weight, if you call a suspension shop one of the first things they will (should) ask you is your weight, from there they will tell you what spring rate you need.