Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted March 28, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted March 28, 2020 Def go lighter in front and / or reduce spacer or preload, and maybe increase air gap. The shock spring may be too heavy as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhs10 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 10 hours ago, betoney said: Were you able to dial out some of the compression damping? or were they harsh regardless? I'm curious if K-Tech components are focused more for sport They were great when the bike was being ridden aggressively, especially when I took the hard cases off and when traveling 60mph or quicker. During my commutes, I felt every single minuscule bump in the road. To the point that it's all I could focus on. I think there were several factors in play here and I still feel that the Ktech IDS-20 are quality suspension. .. 1) personal preference... 2) I lost a bit of weight after getting my shock done by Norwest and I think it was over sprung. I was able to get sag numbers but just my opinion... 3) poor surface streets. I still have my eyes on some Ohlins NIX-30 street and a Y535 or something... can't pull the trigger right now as Ivwork for an airline and my career is very much uncertain at the moment. 1 '15 FJ-09 w/ lots of extras... Fayetteville, GA, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) On 3/27/2020 at 8:50 AM, betoney said: @skipperT - Using the Sonic Springs Calculator and the Race Tech Calculator ... Race Tech lists the stock fork spring rate as 0.70kg/mm, I don't know if they are progressive or straight rate Good ideas, Betoney. They are progressive, I checked my old ones yesterday. i’m wondering if it would be worth ordering a race tech spring in and measuring it to see if it could fit with the K-tech cartridges. -S Edited March 28, 2020 by skipperT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 9 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said: Def go lighter in front and / or reduce spacer or preload, and maybe increase air gap. The shock spring may be too heavy as well. Thanks, that’s the current plan. Any thoughts on another Manufacturer’s springs working with K-tech carts? Aware of any options besides Sonic and Racetech? -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, duhs10 said: They were great when the bike was being ridden aggressively, especially when I took the hard cases off and when traveling 60mph or quicker. During my commutes, I felt every single minuscule bump in the road. To the point that it's all I could focus on. I think there were several factors in play here and I still feel that the Ktech IDS-20 are quality suspension. .. 1) personal preference... 2) I lost a bit of weight after getting my shock done by Norwest and I think it was over sprung. I was able to get sag numbers but just my opinion... 3) poor surface streets. I still have my eyes on some Ohlins NIX-30 street and a Y535 or something... can't pull the trigger right now as Ivwork for an airline and my career is very much uncertain at the moment. I hope everything works out ok for you, lot of uncertainty with everything going on... we canceled a family vacation (for my daughters 16th birthday) to Disneyland that was supposed to start 5 days after they closed down. Rebooked for Labor Day but I’m wondering if that will be enough time for the state of things to improve... -S Edited March 28, 2020 by skipperT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member 2and3cylinders Posted March 28, 2020 Premium Member Share Posted March 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, skipperT said: Thanks, that’s the current plan. Any thoughts on another Manufacturer’s springs working with K-tech carts? Aware of any options besides Sonic and Racetech? -Skip Moto Springs and Accessories for MX Motorcycle Forks & Shock Absorbers Whether you are a serious racer or weekend warrior, no other modification... https://hyperpro.com/springs/ Springs - Hyperpro Fork Springs - Cogent Dynamics Fork Springs are an important part of your motorcycle suspension and... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted March 28, 2020 Author Share Posted March 28, 2020 (edited) Thanks 2and3, very helpful. In other news, clearly they sent me the correct spring: One of the big questions in my mind was whether or not I checked the springs before installing and if they were correct or possibly mispackaged and I didn’t realize it. I can’t get the spacer out without dumping the oil as it’s too far down. So that will be my next step after I do some research on how to correctly measure/trim/install and spacer/spring combo. Unless anyone knows? Could have sworn I ran into this a number of years ago with another aftermarket spring install I did.... thanks for all the thoughts, I really appreciate it -Skip Edited March 28, 2020 by skipperT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member betoney Posted March 28, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted March 28, 2020 1 hour ago, skipperT said: In other news, clearly they sent me the correct spring: One of the big questions in my mind was whether or not I checked the springs before installing and if they were correct or possibly mispackaged and I didn’t realize it. I can’t get the spacer out without dumping the oil as it’s too far down. So that will be my next step after I do some research on how to correctly measure/trim/install and spacer/spring combo. Unless anyone knows? Could have sworn I ran into this a number of years ago with another aftermarket spring install I did.... thanks for all the thoughts, I really appreciate it -Skip Re-reading through this whole thread again, it doesn't seem to be making sense. According to the spring rate calculators, for your weight you should be using .80-.85kg/mm fork springs, so the .75kg/mm springs that you have installed 'should' be too soft, giving you too much sag. You mentioned previously that you had the preload all the way backed off and only achieving 26-28mm sag. How are you getting so little sag measurement with zero spring preload using springs that should be too soft? This is really throwing me off. ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 52 minutes ago, betoney said: Re-reading through this whole thread again, it doesn't seem to be making sense. According to the spring rate calculators, for your weight you should be using .80-.85kg/mm fork springs, so the .75kg/mm springs that you have installed 'should' be too soft, giving you too much sag. You mentioned previously that you had the preload all the way backed off and only achieving 26-28mm sag. How are you getting so little sag measurement with zero spring preload using springs that should be too soft? This is really throwing me off. And I think that is exactly the problem - because I installed the included spacer that was sent with the cartridge kit exactly as it was shipped. Meaning i didn’t shorten the length of the spacer, which actually preloads the spring quite a bit under the cap of the fork. When I assembled the fork I had to compress the spring quite a bit in order to get the upper spring seat and cap assembled to the threaded portion of the inner damping rod. thinking outside the box here, but that pretty much acts as a “preload” on the spring that isn’t measurable. Then screwing in the preload adjuster CW preloads it even more, causing a lack of static sag. -Skip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member betoney Posted March 29, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted March 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, skipperT said: And I think that is exactly the problem - because I installed the included spacer that was sent with the cartridge kit exactly as it was shipped. Meaning i didn’t shorten the length of the spacer, which actually preloads the spring quite a bit under the cap of the fork. When I assembled the fork I had to compress the spring quite a bit in order to get the upper spring seat and cap assembled to the threaded portion of the inner damping rod. thinking outside the box here, but that pretty much acts as a “preload” on the spring that isn’t measurable. Then screwing in the preload adjuster CW preloads it even more, causing a lack of static sag. -Skip OK, that makes sense, yes, the spacer will pre-load the spring. Did the stock cartridge use a spacer? If there was a spacer, was the spring compressed the same amount? ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duhs10 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, betoney said: OK, that makes sense, yes, the spacer will pre-load the spring. Did the stock cartridge use a spacer? If there was a spacer, was the spring compressed the same amount? Yes there is a space in the OEM forks... there is and needs to be a space for the Ktech as well. It is possible that the spacer is too long but since you ordered the whole kit from Ktech I doubt that is the case. When measuring sag in the front what is your method? Are you taking all weight off the front wheel for the first measurement? Going off of memory here, but i believe it's like 145mm of available travel. So your static sag+rider sag should equal around 45-50mm.... if you are measuring 26mm of sag when you are on the bike but the starting point was bike weight on the front wheel then that should be close to 45mm total sag... I think... '15 FJ-09 w/ lots of extras... Fayetteville, GA, USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, betoney said: OK, that makes sense, yes, the spacer will pre-load the spring. Did the stock cartridge use a spacer? If there was a spacer, was the spring compressed the same amount? Yes it did. Hard to say, is the answer to your second question. I don't recall. I have the old parts at work and can re-assemble to measure the complete height of the assembly. However I don't know if that will help as the 20IDS cartridges are different lengths than the stock cartridge and the spring may sit in a different spot. found what I had seen in the past on Racetech's website. https://racetech.com/download/InstructPDF/IP FRSP S Street Fork Springs.pdf (Haven't found it in the Racetech Suspension book yet, still reading) -S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, duhs10 said: Yes there is a space in the OEM forks... there is and needs to be a space for the Ktech as well. It is possible that the spacer is too long but since you ordered the whole kit from Ktech I doubt that is the case. When measuring sag in the front what is your method? Are you taking all weight off the front wheel for the first measurement? Going off of memory here, but i believe it's like 145mm of available travel. So your static sag+rider sag should equal around 45-50mm.... if you are measuring 26mm of sag when you are on the bike but the starting point was bike weight on the front wheel then that should be close to 45mm total sag... I think... Yes, weight off the bike. I'm measuring 26-28mm of Total sag in the Front. Bike standing (upright no rider, and suspension "settled") Front sag=15-18mm. Rider added increases the number to 26-28mm (so stiction is between 2-3mm depending on measurement accuracy) These measurements are with the preload measurement backed-off all the way CCW. -S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipperT Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) Btw I did snap these other pictures when I did the install back in Dec/January. You can see what everything looks like, however I didn’t take a photo of the stock FJ parts for anyone to compare. the K-tech spacer is the grey/aluminum looking thing with the black caps on each end and a hole on one side (which is where you insert the pin of the fork compressed tool). The pics show it already slid down on the cartridge(s). -S Edited March 29, 2020 by skipperT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member betoney Posted March 29, 2020 Supporting Member Share Posted March 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, skipperT said: Yes it did. Hard to say, is the answer to your second question. I don't recall. I have the old parts at work and can re-assemble to measure the complete height of the assembly. However I don't know if that will help as the 20IDS cartridges are different lengths than the stock cartridge and the spring may sit in a different spot. found what I had seen in the past on Racetech's website. https://racetech.com/download/InstructPDF/IP FRSP S Street Fork Springs.pdf (Haven't found it in the Racetech Suspension book yet, still reading) -S So it should just be a matter of shortening the spacer until your desired sag measurement is achieved. If you really had to compress everything tightly to get it assembled then I can understand why it would feel too harsh. 3 ***2015 Candy Red FJ-09*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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