How much brake fluid required when changing lines?

[wordsmith]

This will not be believed, but in all my years of riding (since 1997, and discounting my early teen years in England long before ABS) I have only once felt the ABS engage - and that was on my wife's BMW F650 when I hit the rear brake pretty hard to avoid an errant taxi-driver.   Colour me fortunate!

[roadrash83]

47 minutes ago, dazzler24 said:

Yes, thinking about it last night I think you're right.  I'll do another bleed to be sure for my own OCD-ness as well.

Thanks.

Wonder why the 19 GT didn't activate?!  How fast were you going?  That doesn't sound right.  I could definately feel the pedal and lever pulsing each time so am confident mine was going off.

@dazzler24I tried to activate the ABS on a hard packed dirt road at speeds from 15-25mph. Light front brake and heavy rear brake, never got the ABS to kick on just rear brake lock up, I didn't try the front. Then took it to the dealer to have them run the pump. Made a point to go back to the same road and try again the ABS worked as it should front and back! Beats the hell out of me why it would not work.This is the first ABS bike I have done this to that it did work.

 

 

[dazzler24]

4 minutes ago, roadrash83 said:

@dazzler24I tried to activate the ABS on a hard packed dirt road at speeds from 15-25mph. Light front brake and heavy rear brake, never got the ABS to kick on just rear brake lock up, I didn't try the front. Then took it to the dealer to have them run the pump. Made a point to go back to the same road and try again the ABS worked as it should front and back! Beats the hell out of me why it would not work.This is the first ABS bike I have done this to that it did work.

Hmmm, that doesn't instil confidence in the very thing that is supposed to bring you...confidence.!

Maybe worth road testing it from time to time to ensure that confidence do you think?

[wordsmith]

1 hour ago, dazzler24 said:

Maybe worth road testing it from time to time to ensure that confidence do you think?

Not that I practice it, but I have more than once read that a mobike rider should make a full-on both-brakes emergency stop once in a while as a means of keeping one's skills up to scratch, and ensuring the ABS is still functioning.   It make sense... 

[BBB]

I find the rear brake ABS is easy to kick in on the road, but I don’t recall ever using the front system.

[dazzler24]

1 hour ago, BBB said:

I find the rear brake ABS is easy to kick in on the road, but I don’t recall ever using the front system.

I agree for on the road but get some slippery stuff under the front and you will.  Sand, gravel, loose dirt, grass etc will do it.

I reckon it's worth doing just for the exercise and feedback that you get.  Take it nice and easy though!

[dazzler24]

18 hours ago, roadrash83 said:

@dazzler24 you might want to bleed the system again to get the contaminated fluid that was in the pump out of the system.  The dealer tech bleed my system twice after activating the pump with the computer twice.

@roadrash83 - I did the bleed again as advised and am glad I listened to you as there was a surprising amount of air that came through.  More than I would have thought as the brakes felt pretty good.

The fluid didn't look too bad though - colour wise, but after getting those bubbles out I have a really firm pedal and an especially firm front lever.

Happy days.

To answer my own question for this thread now that I've done the job, I can report that I used about 3/4 of a 500ml (16oz) bottle.

So, about 375ml (12oz).

That's with a complete tear down and evacuation of all lines, new lines installed, thorough bleed plus ABS activation and another bleed.

[wordsmith]

It's been years since I had a firm front lever...

Edited April 28, 2020 by wordsmith

[BBB]

I got the front three brake lines installed today. I’m using the Spiegler 5 line kit and I’d make three observations so far.

1) I removed the airbox, which made removing the old hard lines and routing the new lines much easier. I can't imagine how people have done this leaving the airbox in place.

2) It has been worth importing the 5 line kit. The price was roughly the same as HEL sourced from the UK and transit time from Revzilla US was only about a week. @dazzler24 the 5 line kit has been difficult, the 7 line kit must have been a nightmare.

3) I’m an okay mechanic and normally enjoy spannering, but this has been a complete faff. If it hadn’t been for the lockdown and wanting something to farkle I don't think I would have attempted it.

I’m waiting on the rear brake pressure switch and then I’ll do the rear lines. 

[betoney]

1 minute ago, BBB said:

I got the front three brake lines installed today. I’m using the Spiegler 5 line kit and I’d make three observations so far.

1) I removed the airbox, which made removing the old hard lines and routing the new lines much easier. I can't imagine how people have done this leaving the airbox in place.

I didn't have to remove the airbox, I cut the hard lines in half and removed each half out the front and rear, they pulled right out.  The new lines slid in fairly easy on the left side of the engine behind the frame rail, very similar to the routing of the clutch cable.  For me, the most difficult part was getting access to remove the mount blocks, once I got it in my mind that none of the old parts were reusable and could be cut up and thrown away, it was just a systematic process like building a model car.

Glad you got yours finished, now that it is done, you wont have to do it again.👍

[dazzler24]

5 hours ago, BBB said:

2) It has been worth importing the 5 line kit. The price was roughly the same as HEL sourced from the UK and transit time from Revzilla US was only about a week. @dazzler24 the 5 line kit has been difficult, the 7 line kit must have been a nightmare.

That was quick delivery!  If I had more confidence in getting it delivered here in that time frame I would have gone down that path as well in the end.  Well done.

And yes, once again if I can offer any advice to those who are contemplating this project it would be - get the five-line option.

Great to hear that you're almost there.

[2and3cylinders]

If I did not activate the ABS, won't the brake fluid in the ABS "pump" eventually get mixed with the rest of the system and the old stuff diluted?  I had a firm brake pedal from day one but it took a while for the air to get out of the front somehow.  I do have a bleed port on my Brembo radial front master cylinder .  If I can get them both or at least the front ABS to kick-in, I'll try sucking with my vacuum pump again up there at the highest point in the system.  I'll give it a shot maybe Thursday or Friday as the forecast is rain again till then.  It hit over 70 today though.  Nice to have the shop door open while cleaning and polishing from Sundays ride.  I de-mothballed my 110,000 mile 98 VTR, cleaned and adjusted its chain and nether regions when I installed the wheel with a fresh S22 bun mounted.  I may fire it up tomorrow and get back at the neighbor across the alley who pressure washed his fence and driveway all day.  It needs its 2Bro cans repacked big time LOL.  Nothing like a big twin with nearly open pipes playing its tune!  Talk about an unappreciated now classic motorbike.  As the FJ-09 will become.

[BBB]

Got the rear lines in today, as well as wiring in the pressure switch. Managed one round of fluid bleeding and have left the brakes compressed until I can get to them again.

[piotrek]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:31 PM, BBB said:

I removed the airbox, which made removing the old hard lines and routing the new lines much easier. I can't imagine how people have done this leaving the airbox in place.

...and it takes a minute to remove... if only to gain clear access to the manifold block behind it. I would be going with Spiegler if I were doing this again... for proper mounting hardware, and grommeted lines. I assume you had no issues there?

[BBB]

24 minutes ago, piotrek said:

...and it takes a minute to remove... if only to gain clear access to the manifold block behind it. I would be going with Spiegler if I were doing this again... for proper mounting hardware, and grommeted lines. I assume you had no issues there?

The lines were really good. The ability to rotate the ends to ensure they lay down at the perfect angle for the banjo bolts is very valuable, but apparently not unique to Spiegler. There were plenty of grommets, all in the correct place and tearing out all the hard lines means the only junctions are at ABS, master cylinders or calipers.

But, there are two points where you have to mount a pair of P-clips and the ABS signal cable which I really struggled with. In both places there is little access and you have to hold an 8mm spanner and a 10mm spanner for the nylock, whilst juggling two P clips, two brake cables, two grommets which don’t slide well and an aluminium spacer. Many nasty words were said, with much emotion. You even have to trim one OEM mount and paint it. Sub-optimal in my view, but I guess it would be a lot of work for Spiegler if they had to develop a more customised solution.