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Recommended Suspension Settings | 220lb rider


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Despite all the youtube , i still get confused with my low IQ except rebound which i fully understand. Since this is a Tracer Forum, at least it refer to our bike than others. 

in Dave Moss youtube (the free section), for front, tie a rod(tie rod), ride around, brake around, distant must not exceed 40mm?

Rear - double stand = measure, sit in with both legs/gear = measure, for Tracer what is the difference MM/CM/Inch should i begin with and fine tune from there. 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, WKE002 said:

In Dave Moss youtube (the free section), for front, tie a rod(tie rod), ride around, brake around, distant must not exceed 40mm?

You put a cable tie around the fork, just below the fork seals. It should be tight enough that it doesn’t slip under gravity, but still allows the fork to move properly. You then go for an enthusiastic ride that puts the bike over a normal range of speeds, bumps in the road and some sharp braking from high speed. The cable tie should now be towards the bottom of the fork, as they have compressed during the ride, but you should have at least 10mm of travel left. This is for the occasion when you hit a very big bump in the road.

If the cable tie is completely at the bottom of the fork, you have no safety margin, the forks will bottom out completely. In this case your springs are probably too weak for your weight and riding style. You can add preload and try again but it’s a compromise.

If the cable tie hasn’t moved much, you are either not riding hard enough, or you have too much preload.

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2 hours ago, BBB said:

You put a cable tie around the fork, just below the fork seals. It should be tight enough that it doesn’t slip under gravity, but still allows the fork to move properly. You then go for an enthusiastic ride that puts the bike over a normal range of speeds, bumps in the road and some sharp braking from high speed. The cable tie should now be towards the bottom of the fork, as they have compressed during the ride, but you should have at least 10mm of travel left. This is for the occasion when you hit a very big bump in the road.

If the cable tie is completely at the bottom of the fork, you have no safety margin, the forks will bottom out completely. In this case your springs are probably too weak for your weight and riding style. You can add preload and try again but it’s a compromise.

If the cable tie hasn’t moved much, you are either not riding hard enough, or you have too much preload.

Bottom out is something like 18mm up from the bottom of the tube. Meaning, they'll bottom out internally while some fork tube is still showing. 

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I has a question.  

When you adjust preload, you're actually just compressing the spring, correct?  So, as you adjust preload, you reduce available travel.

Does this actually compress the fork?  Or does it increase the gap between the bottom of the tube and the "bottom out" point?

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"Preload: This adjuster bears down on the shock or fork spring and shortens or extends the spring accordingly. Many people think that changing preload affects spring stiffness, and while you can compensate to a certain extent for a too-soft or too-stiff spring by using preload, the right move in that situation is to change the spring itself. Preload is used to adjust the shock or spring to the correct range of operation within the suspension's travel-more preload will raise the bike up on its suspension, keeping you near the top of its travel. With less preload, the bike sits lower and closer to the bottom of its suspension travel."

VW7ZSHJ7HATJG2LN6YK5GGDY3I.jpg

We take a look at suspension setup routines and how you can dial in your...

 

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1 hour ago, betoney said:

"Preload: This adjuster bears down on the shock or fork spring and shortens or extends the spring accordingly. Many people think that changing preload affects spring stiffness, and while you can compensate to a certain extent for a too-soft or too-stiff spring by using preload, the right move in that situation is to change the spring itself. Preload is used to adjust the shock or spring to the correct range of operation within the suspension's travel-more preload will raise the bike up on its suspension, keeping you near the top of its travel. With less preload, the bike sits lower and closer to the bottom of its suspension travel."

VW7ZSHJ7HATJG2LN6YK5GGDY3I.jpg

We take a look at suspension setup routines and how you can dial in your...

 

Maybe I'm just dense, but I'm trying to figure out how it's actually working that.  Obviously, I understand if you increase preload, you'll reduce sag because the spring is tighter, and vice versa.  This happens by compressing/decompressing the spring.  My curiousity is if this also reduces travel - I suppose that's more a matter of if "bottoming out" means the spring is 100% compressed, or if "bottoming out" means internal movement limiters within the fork at hit (but the spring is not actually 100% compressed. 

Probably the latter, that makes more sense.  

I've got an annoying need to actually understand a mechanism, more than just "turn this knob and get this result"

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1 hour ago, Wintersdark said:

Obviously, I understand if you increase preload, you'll reduce sag because the spring is tighter, and vice versa.  This happens by compressing/decompressing the spring.  My curiousity is if this also reduces travel

My understanding - and this may be wrong - is you set the sag to 1/3 of the fork travel and then set compression damping to prevent bottoming.

I think it was @piotrek or @StealthAu who recently mentioned putting a zip tie on one leg to monitor fork travel.  Push the zip tie up to the dust seal and go for a ride over bumpy surface and aggressive cornering and braking and then see where the zip tie is sitting.

**EDIT, I see it was @BBB who mentioned it this morning.

**2nd Edit, more reading for you.👍


Sag and Preload - Motorcycle Chassis and Suspension Technical...

 

***2015 Candy Red FJ-09***

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3 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

...I understand if you increase preload, you'll reduce sag because the spring is tighter, and vice versa.  This happens by compressing/decompressing the spring.  My curiousity is if this also reduces travel - I suppose that's more a matter of if "bottoming out" means the spring is 100% compressed, or if "bottoming out" means internal movement limiters within the fork at hit (but the spring is not actually 100% compressed...

I have been following the method described in this piece. Reasoning made sense to me.

 

canada.gif.22c5f8bdb95643b878d06c336f5fe29f.gif

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2 hours ago, betoney said:

My understanding - and this may be wrong - is you set the sag to 1/3 of the fork travel and then set compression damping to prevent bottoming.

I think it was @piotrek or @StealthAu who recently mentioned putting a zip tie on one leg to monitor fork travel.  Push the zip tie up to the dust seal and go for a ride over bumpy surface and aggressive cornering and braking and then see where the zip tie is sitting.

**EDIT, I see it was @BBB who mentioned it this morning.

**2nd Edit, more reading for you.👍


Sag and Preload - Motorcycle Chassis and Suspension Technical...

 

Yeah that's not what I mean.  I understand how to set sag, as well as compression and rebound damping.  None of those have anything to do with my question.

It was a pure mechanics question that I had: When you increase the preload, you compress the spring.  As the spring is compressed, it's physically smaller.  Does this result in shorter total suspension travel?  

The answer depends on whether travel is limited by the spring becoming fully compressed, or if the forks have stops that they hit regardless of spring length. 

This can be relevant in how you measure things.  Say, at zero preload on the front forks, when fully extended we've got 137mm of travel, and that takes us (IIRC, exact number doesn't matter for the question) to 18mm from the bottom of the tube when fully compressed, so 137+18=155mm from the bottom of the tube when fully extended.  Are these numbers the same at max preload?  Obviously, the tension is different, but theres *always* 137mm of travel(stop to stop, ignoring sag) regardless of preload setting? 

 

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When you compress the spring when increasing preload, you are changing the 'sliding' scale of how the spring behaves. You don't *necessarily* lose any length of travel on the fork (though in practice, you certainly might). But by preloading the spring, you are loading it with a certain force based on the spring constant. To make that spring compress any further requires more force than it would if it were not preloaded, thereby making the entire suspension feel stiffer, as the smaller bumps are felt more easily. tldr; No, preloading a spring doesn't necessarily reduce the physical shock travel. What it does is reduce the shock's USEFUL travel.

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Sorry for my ignorant, more or less i know sag/preload,  in layman term, what is the reference point for our Tracer/GT if i put a zip tie up the fork seal and ride around here and there. if there are no mm/cm/inch, should it not exceed half from fork seal or quarter from fork seal or..... 

i doubt my weight of 63kgs will not see the bottom out the zip tie but a reference on the distant would be a good start for me.

My past Harley and Triump do not have these adjustment on the front. 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, WKE002 said:

Sorry for my ignorant, more or less i know sag/preload,  in layman term, what is the reference point for our Tracer/GT if i put a zip tie up the fork seal and ride around here and there. if there are no mm/cm/inch, should it not exceed half from fork seal or quarter from fork seal or.....

image.thumb.png.acab86db5a2ab60b016dcd4c78cb1cf4.png

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5 hours ago, WKE002 said:

Sorry for my ignorant, more or less i know sag/preload,  in layman term, what is the reference point for our Tracer/GT if i put a zip tie up the fork seal and ride around here and there. if there are no mm/cm/inch, should it not exceed half from fork seal or quarter from fork seal or..... 

i doubt my weight of 63kgs will not see the bottom out the zip tie but a reference on the distant would be a good start for me.

My past Harley and Triump do not have these adjustment on the front. 

 

 

 

Your old bikes could still be adjusted, just need to open the forks to do so.

 

For the Tracer... you have 137mm of fork travel available, as per the manual. For those wondering how fork preload effects total travel, it doesn't. You would need to compress the springs a hell of a lot more than the preload adjusters can to limit total travel. 

Anyway, back to you, and others working out how to setup the forks. 

Lift the front wheel off the ground and measure 137mm down from the fork seal. Mark the fork tube here with a sharpie so you have a visual representation of where bottom out is. 

Chuck a zip tie on that fork leg so you have a visual representation of how much fork travel you are using. 

Set your sag, front and rear. Around 40mm (+/-5mm) is good. Keep it consistent front to rear. If you can't get it in this range, you need to look at new springs immediately. Not after the new exhaust or whatever else. 

Set your sag before you do anything else!

Set your rebound front and rear. Push down on your forks and release. it should come back up and stop. If it bounces, add more rebound damping. Do the same to the rear. You want the least amount of rebound damping that prevents it from bouncing. 

Go for a ride with a small flat head screw driver. find a road with some bumps,  rough surface or the like. 

Open the compression damping and see how it feels. Close it and see how it feels. Know what bad feels like so you can find the right setup. 

Set it back in the middle and decide from there, do you want to try two clicks less or two clicks more? Find where you want it. 

Now you need to see if that setup works. Each time you take a break, get where you are going, note where the zip tie is and lift it back up. 

Start by taking it somewhat easy, check where the tie is. Ride a little harder, check the zip tie.

If the zip tie isn't approaching bottom out, it is safe to try some hard braking, really lean on them. After some hard braking, you want a good 10mm or more gap between the tie and the bottom out mark. If confidence is preventing you from braking harder, allow for a 20mm gap instead of 10mm. 

If you don't have enough of a safety gap between it and the bottom out mark, add a couple clicks of compression damping. If you need to add so much compression damping that it poorly effects ride comfort, you need stiffer springs. 

Check the zip tie regularly. Check the rebound regularly. As the fork and shock oil age, you'll need to increase damping. 

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StealthAu, thanks, my brain trying to catch up....can take a look at the pic if what u describe in pic is as such. 

Lift the front wheel off the ground and measure 137mm down from the fork seal. Mark the fork tube here with a sharpie so you have a visual representation of where bottom out is. 

Chuck a zip tie on that fork leg so you have a visual representation of how much fork travel you are using. 

Set your sag, front and rear. Around 40mm (+/-5mm) is good. Keep it consistent front to rear. If you can't get it in this range, you need to look at new springs immediately. Not after the new exhaust or whatever else. - AHEM....the ZIP TIE around 40mm from the fork seal or 40mm from sharpie. 

sag resize.jpg

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Your diagram is right for marking bottom out. Forks need to be fully extended when doing this. 

The zip tie is more for measuring how much suspension you are using.

Get a friend or two to help you set your sag. with you on the bike, you want both the front and rear to be compressed around 40mm from fully extended. 

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