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[Nokinian]

Hi - I'm new here and contemplating buying a GT. I have a question about loading and touring with a pillion. I know much has been discussed about the apparent limitation Yamaha place on payload, to the extent of even making it difficult to mount a top-case and paniers at the same time. I also believe, from what I've read on here, that it is possible to overcome this.

My question is simply about the feasibility of 2-up touring.  And although we'd be 2-up no more than 10% of my time spent riding, It'll be a deal-breaker if this doesn't work for us. My wife and I are both average build (ie height/weight) although oddly I am not sure of our respective weights with full clobber. My weight without gear is 76-80kg (167-176lbs) and my wife would be similar. But without getting hooked into detailed weight calculations, do people as a rule put top-cases and paniers on their bikes and go touring 2-up? Related to this, my wife whilst comfortable on a bike as a passenger, requires the security and cosetting feeling of having a box behind her with a back-pad. She doesn't lean heavily against it, but it has to be there. She's even not crazy about joining me on a test ride when there's no box.

It seems kind of crazy to me that I have to ask such a question of a bike which seems designed to fulfill this sort of role, although I'm also alive to the compromises, on the basis that Yamaha have set out to design a lightweight machine which ticks as many touring boxes as possible but without necessarily claiming to have produced the perfect uber-touring/adventuring experience. That's no doubt the role of the GS (a 1250 incarnation of which I now leave behind me for complicated reasons).

Your experiences would be much appreciated!

[betoney]

I believe the weight limitations on the rated payload have to do with the sub-frame strength, as well as making the front end lighter and wobbly at speed.  I'm sure you could exceed the cargo capacity a small bit but the recommended weight rating is there for a reason, most importantly the safety of your passenger.

[Nokinian]

41 minutes ago, betoney said:

I believe the weight limitations on the rated payload have to do with the sub-frame strength, as well as making the front end lighter and wobbly at speed.  I'm sure you could exceed the cargo capacity a small bit but the recommended weight rating is there for a reason, most importantly the safety of your passenger.

Thank you for that. Yes, I'm hoping the wobbliness has been addressed (at least in part) by the longer swingarm and uprated suspension on the new GT model, but take your point about subframe capacity, which I have also read about elsewhere. I'm particuarly interested in peoples' experiences however, and what they actually do.

[piotrek]

The OE spring on the FJ is 570lb I believe. I ride with my daughter, with some luggage in side cases and sometimes the top case, combined load of say around 350-360lbs (230lbs of it a wholesome me). We did some of that on the stock shock for a bit... felt heavy and near limit of safety. Upgraded my shock, with a 650lb spring and we're now both having fun. If the spring on the Tracer 900 is anything in the neighbourhood of the FJ spec, I would recommend at least a new spring, if easily upgradeable. I recall that on the FJ it was an odd size that requided spacers or such.

This has been my experience. Hope it helps.

 

[Nokinian]

20 minutes ago, piotrek said:

The OE spring on the FJ is 570lb I believe. I ride with my daughter, with some luggage in side cases and sometimes the top case, combined load of say around 350-360lbs (230lbs of it a wholesome me). We did some of that on the stock shock for a bit... felt heavy and near limit of safety. Upgraded my shock, with a 650lb spring and we're now both having fun. If the spring on the Tracer 900 is anything in the neighbourhood of the FJ spec, I would recommend at least a new spring, if easily upgradeable. I recall that on the FJ it was an odd size that requided spacers or such.

This has been my experience. Hope it helps.

 

Very useful indeed - many thanks. I thought, possibly naively, that the FJ specs would be the same as the Tracer (same bike different market name?). I can only tell you that Yamaha quote the max payload as 365lbs (166kg) so, if it was the same specs, looks like you were certainly getting close. 

Good tip about replacing the spring, but whilst also noting other comments about subframe limitations.

[piotrek]

1 hour ago, Nokinian said:

Yamaha quote the max payload as 365lbs...

It appears that there are some differences between the model years/generations. The 2015 FJ owner's manual states 397lbs. The suspension travel on my bike (2015 FJ) is also shorter by 12mm.

Edited June 25, 2020 by piotrek

[Nokinian]

2 hours ago, piotrek said:

It appears that there are some differences between the model years/generations. The 2015 FJ owner's manual states 397lbs. The suspension travel on my bike (2015 FJ) is also shorter by 12mm.

Again, thanks. Another thing to check with you on, Piotrek - you mentioned uprating the spring, and reasonably substantially (roughly 17%); did the extra stiffness of that spring give a noticeably less compliant ride, when riding solo?

[TheBigG]

I'm about 100kg whit all gear and my wife about 80kg. I have some mods that add over 15-18kg to the bike. So all in all some 200kg load. When I have my wife on the bike we ride at "normal" speed, never over 110km/h (70mph) and I don't lean more than necessary. The bike feels more planted, the suspension more comfortable, easyer to avoid jerkiness in the throttle or when shifting. 

I never had boxes on the bike so I don't know how it would be with 30kg more but I think it would work if you don need to ride fast or sporty...

I don't thint that if Yamaha recommend 180kg max payload the bike will brake in half if you load it with 50kg more. And the pressurue on the front wheel will increase but not as mych as on the rear wheel so no fear for the "death wobble"

Edited June 25, 2020 by TheBigG

[piotrek]

8 hours ago, Nokinian said:

...you mentioned updating the spring, and reasonably substantially (roughly 17%); did the extra stiffness of that spring give a noticeably less compliant ride, when riding solo?

Not at all. To clarify... I upgraded the entire shock, not just the spring. It is still a basic shock (Nitron NTR-R1). I had it built for approximate load range 220-370lbs. This includes rider and pillion, luggage, all gear, brackets, tools, accessories etc. The spring that came on the shock is 650lb. I need very little preload for solo rides without luggage.

Edited June 25, 2020 by piotrek

[angrygirafe]

My wife and I have done an overnight on my 2016 FJ with stock suspension. I’m about 180 without gear, she’s 105ish. Both 22l sidecases and the 47l top box were packed full. I took it a little easier than I would have solo, but it was a fun trip, even if we were over the weight limit. Nothing falling off yet. 
 

 

 

 

[koth442]

Paging @com3 to the white courtesy phone... 

[com3]

I'm 6'3, 225 nekkid. My gf is 5'7, 130, nekkid...355...with full gear, puts us at about 400, I'd say. Plus top case with waters and tire plug kit, etc etc etc, I'd say my normal ride weight it's around 420-425lbs. I also have side cases...so for trips, sides cases go on...I'd say 450-460lbs in all. 

And I rip. Tight twisty roads, wheelies, jumps, offroad, I do it all. 2015 fj.

It sucked in the stock shock. Bottomed out ALL the time. Even smashed two oil pans had to get a skid plate to stop smashing oil pans.

Then I got a new penkse shock, sprung for 460# (and stiffer springs up front+revalve kit). Now the bike works like it's supposed to. 

The tracer has a longer swing arm, so I imagine it's probably sprung a little stiffer than the fj...when I rode it, it didn't feel as sloppy in the back. 

[betoney]

58 minutes ago, com3 said:

IAnd I rip. Tight twisty roads, wheelies, jumps, offroad, I do it all. 2015 fj.

Truly a versatile do-it-all bike. 😁👍

[Nokinian]

8 hours ago, com3 said:

I'm 6'3, 225 nekkid. My gf is 5'7, 130, nekkid...355...with full gear, puts us at about 400, I'd say. Plus top case with waters and tire plug kit, etc etc etc, I'd say my normal ride weight it's around 420-425lbs. I also have side cases...so for trips, sides cases go on...I'd say 450-460lbs in all. 

And I rip. Tight twisty roads, wheelies, jumps, offroad, I do it all. 2015 fj.

It sucked in the stock shock. Bottomed out ALL the time. Even smashed two oil pans had to get a skid plate to stop smashing oil pans.

Then I got a new penkse shock, sprung for 460# (and stiffer springs up front+revalve kit). Now the bike works like it's supposed to. 

The tracer has a longer swing arm, so I imagine it's probably sprung a little stiffer than the fj...when I rode it, it didn't feel as sloppy in the back. 

So glad you answered the page, Com3. Extremely helpful answer. I chuckled at your expedient solution of fitting a skid plate to take duty off the sump during landings with you and your GF, after giving her some air (the bike, not the GF) - er, nekkid or otherwise.

I see Piotrek also fitted an aftermarket shock, in his case a Nitron (readily available here, not sure about the Penske yet). 

Are you able to fit a mounting plate for the top case ok, and was it an aftermarket one becasue I think Yamaha make it hard to fit their plate/bracket if you also have the side cases fitted?

[com3]

I have the stock 51L top case