Advice Needed - Low idle/stalling

[skipperT]

20 hours ago, angrygirafe said:

I will readily admit to being of no mechanical mind, so I have no idea how he did it 😂

Oh, Ok. No worries.  To elaborate, some people get concerned about low compression numbers, but they don’t always tell the whole story. Just another piece of data to use as a tool for troubleshooting. 

when you perform a compression test, it’s important to make sure that air can get easily into the engine. If not, it can affect the results. 

-S

[angrygirafe]

Well, just got off the phone with the mechanic. Valves were in spec (barely), timing was still aligned. It sounds like he was doing the compression test correctly, as he was expecting around 180 psi. 
 

His thoughts are that the piston rings are wearing, and the valve service upset it enough to be noticeable. His recommendation is to put it back together and sell it. Probably another 900$ to rebuild it. Bleh. I was really hoping this was a tech screw up. I know 50k is a lot of miles on a bike, but I know a lot of people here have done a lot more. 

[kilo3]

Boy that's just sad news, 50k would sure make me think twice about going back to the well.

[pilninggas]

When I read this in work earlier [and couldnt reply], I thought - as other has posted - that the chain timing was out. I once rushed a timing belt on renault laguna and got one tooth out on the exhaust. It started warmed up okay, but idled slowly and died. Had to pull it apart and retime it (oops).

I am amazed a valve job would alter a bike from feeling acceptable/normal to not idling - these are quite extreme variations. As long as your mechanic is confident it is timed in correctly, then i'd be inclined to think a hose or sensor is still adrift.

You need to have the vacuum analysed using one of those electronic balancing kits like this: 

eSync Tool (EST) - HealTech Electronics Ltd.

---

Highlights Just plug it in and start the measurement. The eSync Tool...

 (a decent tech might see it on an old analogue balancer set).

Somewhere something is wrong and vacuum analysis might reveal it - even stripping some body work to investigate might reveal an unconnected pipe or connector.

I've had loads of modern bikes do 50,000 miles none had piston ring wear (apart from the 2 strokes!).

I wish i could look at it for you, I cant believe you will have to take a loss because of other people's 'diagnosis'.

[betoney]

3 hours ago, angrygirafe said:

I know 50k is a lot of miles on a bike, but I know a lot of people here have done a lot more. 

I'm not sure where this idea comes from, maybe from those that get a new bike every 18-24 months and have never had high mileage? 

Myself and all of my riding buddies all have over 50k on our bikes. 

[angrygirafe]

33 minutes ago, betoney said:

I'm not sure where this idea comes from, maybe from those that get a new bike every 18-24 months and have never had high mileage? 

Myself and all of my riding buddies all have over 50k on our bikes. 

I think people who don’t ride daily assume the lifespan of a bike is the same as the total miles they’ll ride in their life. 50k should be broken in, not one foot in the grave. 

[Buggy Nate]

Doing a valve service does not upset the rings to a point of wearing out. You may as well say the tyres wore out after I filled up. 
How are the valve ‘barely’ in spec after such a short period between him setting them?!

Something is amiss and you are not receiving good information or all of it. Has he performed a wet compression test? Or a proper one with the throttle plates open?

Did he check the map sensor is plugged in correctly? Do not take his advice to sell if he cannot even figure out what’s wrong. 

[angrygirafe]

15 hours ago, Buggy Nate said:

Doing a valve service does not upset the rings to a point of wearing out. You may as well say the tyres wore out after I filled up. 
How are the valve ‘barely’ in spec after such a short period between him setting them?!

Something is amiss and you are not receiving good information or all of it. Has he performed a wet compression test? Or a proper one with the throttle plates open?

Did he check the map sensor is plugged in correctly? Do not take his advice to sell if he cannot even figure out what’s wrong. 

This is shop number two, that I had check the work of shop number one. So, the first shop apparently reset the clearance, but at the far end of the acceptable range; I’m guessing they didn’t remeasure after tightening things up. So far this guy has been better than the original shop, but if go get a third opinion, I’m going to end up spending more on this bike than it’s worth just for one service interval. I can ask him the procedures about the work he’s done, but I won’t understand my own questions, much less his answers, and I know how much I love it when people do that to me.

 

 I’ll bring it home, and poke around as much as my limited knowledge will allow, but it’s getting replaced whether it’s fixed or not. My bike is my only personal vehicle, and after two months of borrowing the wife’s car, she’s over it and so am I. Should have the replacement bike this weekend. 

[peteinpa]

Sad to hear. So what's the replacement?

[angrygirafe]

8 minutes ago, peteinpa said:

Sad to hear. So what's the replacement?

If everything checks out, a 2018 Zero S. Should be a very different experience. Hopefully a good one. 
 

I’ll miss the FJ. It’s been 50k miles of fun.

[angrygirafe]

The saga continues. The FJ is back together, and ready for pick up, bit there’s been... a plot twist! Dun dun dunnnnn. 
 

Previously, it started and ran fine, and after warming up would have a weak idle and sometimes stall. Now, it has a weak idle when cold, and seems to run fine when warm. There’s a couple caveats there though. Occasionally it starts fine, even when ice cold. Occasionally when warm, it seems to run rich. 
 

My brain remembers way back in the day, I had the 2wdw flash done, and did the APS adjustment many of us did to smooth things out. I also deleted the charcoal canister, because California model. I’m wondering if any of those could be the culprits.

 

In any case, piston rings are no longer on the suspicious list. He is leaning towards computer or throttle body balance. But I might poke around before throwing more money at it. The ecu I can just send out and have reflashed. 
 

Any thoughts?

[texscottyd]

34 minutes ago, angrygirafe said:

Previously, it started and ran fine, and after warming up would have a weak idle and sometimes stall. Now, it has a weak idle when cold, and seems to run fine when warm. There’s a couple caveats there though. Occasionally it starts fine, even when ice cold. Occasionally when warm, it seems to run rich.

Interesting.   That certainly sounds more electrical than mechanical...  sensor/computer/fueling perhaps? 

My Dodge truck behaved that way when there was an issue with a temperature sensor, which apparently teamed up with the the air mass meter to confuse the throttle body.   Not sure how that translates to the CP3 motor, but I wonder if one of the electronic components was damaged/dislodged when it was apart for the valve adjustment?    

[micah2074]

When I read 50k and worn out my BS meter went off the scale. 

[angrygirafe]

26 minutes ago, texscottyd said:

Interesting.   That certainly sounds more electrical than mechanical...  sensor/computer/fueling perhaps? 

My Dodge truck behaved that way when there was an issue with a temperature sensor, which apparently teamed up with the the air mass meter to confuse the throttle body.   Not sure how that translates to the CP3 motor, but I wonder if one of the electronic components was damaged/dislodged when it was apart for the valve adjustment?    

I’m hoping electrical. I think I actually have a chance of tracking that down

[kilo3]

After all this tinkering with valves, no one's done a throttle body sync yet?