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keithu

H-D Pan America

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Specs are out:

Starts at $17319 US, 150hp, 94 ft-lb, 534lbs wet. Standard cruise and heated grips. Semi-active suspension on the $20k model. Looks like a home run on paper. 

I'll be interested to read ride reviews. Hopefully it doesn't have any fatal flaws like the Street models. 

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I’m definitely intrigued.   The specs look tempting, and H-D seems to be serious about investing in promotion and new market building this time.  

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1 hour ago, keithu said:

Hopefully it doesn't have any fatal flaws like the Street models. 

Scary stuff indeed. You couldn't get me to buy a first or probably second year release HD with a gun to my head.
I do feel bummed out they aren't actively aiming for the younger generation, but I don't think that's a market HD can even remotely compete in these days for quality and price.

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I'm encouraged to see them putting something out there but $20,000 for the Special and still no side cases or spoked wheels? That puts it in or beyond V4 Multistrada range, and way beyond Kawasaki Versys 1000 LT SE, which has all this has and more. They will need to drop the price and add features to attract away all of us who buy based on value. 

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17 minutes ago, Salish900 said:

I'm encouraged to see them putting something out there but $20,000 for the Special and still no side cases or spoked wheels? That puts it in or beyond V4 Multistrada range 

Not really. A Multistrada V4S (so it has semi-active suspension like the PA Special) is $24,095 without bags or spoked wheels. That's a $4,096 premium for a quick shifter, ~20 extra HP, and the radar features. The H-D's 150hp is still pretty good, and I'll bet the aftermarket will offer a quick shifter for less than $4k. I can easily live without adaptive CC and blind spot monitoring. 

The Versys, though a fine bike, is well down on power compared to the Harley or Ducati, and also heavier. 

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33 minutes ago, kilo3 said:

You couldn't get me to buy a first or probably second year release HD with a gun to my head.

This is a valid concern. But is Ducati any better in this regard? 

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4 minutes ago, keithu said:

This is a valid concern. But is Ducati any better in this regard? 

or triumph, but I learned my lesson before. I still kinda want a monster 1200 though...

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43 minutes ago, keithu said:

Not really. A Multistrada V4S (so it has semi-active suspension like the PA Special) is $24,095 without bags or spoked wheels. That's a $4,096 premium for a quick shifter, ~20 extra HP, and the radar features. The H-D's 150hp is still pretty good, and I'll bet the aftermarket will offer a quick shifter for less than $4k. I can easily live without adaptive CC and blind spot monitoring. 

The Versys, though a fine bike, is well down on power compared to the Harley or Ducati, and also heavier. 

My point is that if the HD bike is $20K without side cases or spoked wheels, then by the time you add those things you are getting pretty darn close to that $24K number, which is just an enormous amount to spend on a bike. True, the Ducati special starts there, but hell, it's Italian. And like others here have said, there is no way on this green earth I would drop that kind of cash on a Harley before it has been around 4-5 years. The Ducati has a lot of new stuff, but they aren't new at the Multi. I see this HD being purchased by hard core fans, or folks really loyal to an American brand no matter what, but for the rest of the planet, it's going to be a while before spending that on a Harley feels justified when compared to the competition. That's my two cents...

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8 minutes ago, Salish900 said:

I see this HD being purchased by hard core fans, or folks really loyal to an American brand no matter what, but for the rest of the planet, it's going to be a while before spending that on a Harley feels justified when compared to the competition. That's my two cents...

Speaking for myself, I've never been an H-D fan and their classic products have no appeal to me. And while I do like the idea of buying an American brand, the reality is I currently own two Yamahas, a Toyota, and a Hyundai. Based on discussions I've been following over on the ADV Rider forum, there seem to be a lot of people like me who are interested in the PA. 

Conversely, most of the hardcore H-D pirates I know think the Pan America is an abomination. 

A key part of the value proposition for the PA - at least in North America - is Harley's massive dealer network. There are probably at least 10 H-D dealers in USA and Canada for every one Ducati dealer. Maybe more. If you actually plan to travel on this thing, the dealer network is a huge benefit. 

What remains to be seen is whether the dealer network will embrace the PA, or will they shove it off into a corner where the Buells used to sit. That's what I'm waiting to see. 

Funny observation: Go to the BMW NA website today and the first thing you see people cruising urban streets on the R18. Go to the Harley-Davidson website and you see a Pan America plowing through mud. Welcome to Upside-Down World. 😂

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Here's a good technical write-up on the engine by Kevin Cameron:

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Cycle World’s technical editor, Kevin Cameron, gets the details of...

It seems to be a truly modern engine: DOHC, 4 valves per cylinder, dual spark, VVT, cam chain, assist/slipper clutch, dual balance shafts, knock sensors. And it has hydraulic valve adjusters, so no valve adjustments ever. They're claiming 48mpg, which is far better than Ducati's claimed 36mpg. Not that I would base any decision purely on fuel economy, but man that's a big difference. We'll see if H-D's claims are accuratish. 

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Boy that "article" is a tough one to swallow. It's nothing but HD spoon fed propaganda.  Bet they paid a pretty penny on marketing for this one, because they honestly need a win and fast.

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40 minutes ago, kilo3 said:

Boy that "article" is a tough one to swallow. It's nothing but HD spoon fed propaganda.  Bet they paid a pretty penny on marketing for this one, because they honestly need a win and fast.

It's a break-down of the technical features, which has been Kevin Cameron's schtick for 40+ years. Of course we don't yet know how well all these new features actually work or if they'll be reliable. But the motor is clearly a whole new direction for H-D. 

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