Dunlop Mutant Tire

[1moreroad]

Saw the Dunlop press release on all the major sites. Any reason to think this would be a better tire for an FJ/Tracer compared to a Roadsmart or Pilot Road, etc.?

Dunlop’s Mutant Tire Adapts To All Terrains And Conditions

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Nightcrawler’s grip with Wolverine’s...

 

[johnmark101]

I have seen some riders really rail the twisties on tires that you would think are not suitable for doing so.  If this thing provides decent grip it might just be worth looking into for those who ride in all types of weather.  

[Salish900]

It looks loud. The gaps and spacing makes it likely to feel lumpy. I don't ride my 900 on dirt. I ride slab that is dry or wet. Often wet! But I want smooth. Smooth, baby, smooth. 

[whisperquiet]

Price per tire and expected tread life??

[1moreroad]

12 hours ago, whisperquiet said:

Price per tire and expected tread life??

Price per tire - MSRP about 10% more than a Roadsmart 4.

Tread life - claiming tread life of a touring tire beyond a sport touring tire. So far I'm only seeing press releases.

13 hours ago, Salish900 said:

I ride slab that is dry or wet. Often wet! But I want smooth. Smooth, baby, smooth.

With all of the channels, this tire might be great in wet.  I could also see it cupping quickly.  🤷‍♂️ Hey, I finally found the "shrug" emoji!

[betoney]

14 hours ago, whisperquiet said:

Price per tire and expected tread life??

The only thing I could find is this -

Fronts start at $186
Rears start at $194
per Ultimate Motorcycling article

[Salish900]

2 hours ago, 1moreroad said:

I could also see it cupping quickly.

Yes, that too. Honestly, I don't see any advantage. Why would I go from a Road 5 or T31 or T32 to something less smooth, more likely to cup, be louder and feel lumpy? There is no practical way that tire is going to be better in the wet than the Michelin. Price seems no better. Color me unimpressed for my riding and bike. Looks almost as enduro as the Metzeler Karoo 3.  

[Wintersdark]

Looks pretty cool, and I'd consider it as a "poor mans winter tire" but I can't see how it's going to outperform a Road 5 unless you're doing light off-roading. 

Though I'd argue it's not going to be anywhere near like those Karoos.  The Mutants look very similar to my winters, which are actually quite smooth riding, not at all like the Karoos would be.

 

The key is the mostly contiguous centerline.  And the Mutants are much smoother towards the sides (as they're not expected to be functioning as paddles, I'd assume).  

I'd bet they'll be quite smooth and grippy, probably very good 4 season tires for sure, but I think the "jack of all trades" nature of them is going to be the downfall.  Modern 3 season sport touring tires (Road's, Roadteks, etc) specialize in dry+wet grip and longevity on pavement only where these Mutants seem to sacrifice some of that to move to adding some light offroad capability.

That's damn cool, if you regularly spend a bit of time on well maintained dirt roads, but I'd argue if you're actually doing any remotely serious offroad riding you'd be much better off with proper ADV tires, and if you're not going offroad at all as I said the extant ST tires are going to be better.

 

But this is all theory based on reading their press release (with a healthy helping of scepticism, admittedly, because press copy is always exaggerated) and the look of the tires.  I'm definitely curious about how they fair in actual use. 

[draco_1967]

Dragging up this older thread with an update from my experience. 

I have been running a set of Mutants since February, and after about 6500 miles, the rear is close to done. Unfortunately, I did ride a lot of highway. The rear is squared off and at the wear bars in the center with tons of tread left on the sides. The front still looks good, though it is feathering. 

I really liked the performance of these tires in all conditions (sub-freezing, wet, dry, etc.). They handled really nicely and inspired confidence. I do wish I got more miles out of them. They were more expensive than the Bridgestone T32s I had before (got with rebate), but they didn't get any more mileage (though I liked them more. The only other down side to them was the front liked to howl a bit when leaned over in corners at speed. 

I had no illusions of using them as an off-road tire. They did fine in gravel parking lots and groomed dirt roads (going to campgrounds), but so do most ST tires. 

I probably won't get another set, unless I find them on sale or with a rebate. I paid $389 for the set, so they are still less than the Michelin Road 6, or even Road 5s. It is crazy how expensive tires are these days... I'm not sure what I will be replacing them with. 

[piotrek]

3 hours ago, draco_1967 said:

I probably won't get another set, unless I find them on sale or with a rebate.

Similar experience here overall... and they've ballooned in price up here too. Off the radar for me for the time being.

[draco_1967]

I just checked prices, and it's now $400 for the set of Mutants. The Conti Road Attack 4 set is $415 (edit: I found them for $380 for a set at Speed Addicts!). Michelin Road 6 set is close to $500! My friend had the stealership quote almost $700 for a set of Road 6s BEFORE installation!! I'll probably try the Conti's and see if they get better miles.

Edited September 26 by draco_1967

[jthayer09]

I genuinely believe motorcycle tire pricing is fixed - the manufacturers are, for all intents and purposes, behaving like cartels. 

There's no reason any designs over 5-years old should be the prices they are, by then the company has more than made back their money on RnD and casting of the initial molds. See: Dunlop RoadSmart III is 7 years old now and it costs 30-50% more than when it first launched depending on where and when you buy.

Could you imagine? If an entire car category across multiple manufacturers' MSRPs ballooned in price the same proportions that motorcycle tire prices have there'd be DOJ investigation immediately. The same way the DOJ is fighting food price fixing currently.

I hope EU/US regulators actually take a look at this and either find manufacturers are price fixing, or can at least shed transparency as to why the costs have risen out of proportion to other market categories.

More on-topic: I've been running the Conti Road Attack 4 for 1,600 miles now on the Super Duke GT and the rear is by far the best sport touring rear I have ever ridden on if you are on the "sport" side of sport-touring. I thought I was going to have buyer's remorse with the price tag but it's been 1,600 miles of smiles.

[larolco]

On 9/25/2024 at 2:05 PM, draco_1967 said:

Dragging up this older thread with an update from my experience. 

I have been running a set of Mutants since February, and after about 6500 miles, the rear is close to done. Unfortunately, I did ride a lot of highway. The rear is squared off and at the wear bars in the center with tons of tread left on the sides. The front still looks good, though it is feathering. 

I really liked the performance of these tires in all conditions (sub-freezing, wet, dry, etc.). They handled really nicely and inspired confidence. I do wish I got more miles out of them. They were more expensive than the Bridgestone T32s I had before (got with rebate), but they didn't get any more mileage (though I liked them more. The only other down side to them was the front liked to howl a bit when leaned over in corners at speed. 

I had no illusions of using them as an off-road tire. They did fine in gravel parking lots and groomed dirt roads (going to campgrounds), but so do most ST tires. 

I probably won't get another set, unless I find them on sale or with a rebate. I paid $389 for the set, so they are still less than the Michelin Road 6, or even Road 5s. It is crazy how expensive tires are these days... I'm not sure what I will be replacing them with. 

This was also my experience with the Mutants. I'm running Michelin Road 6s now and am very pleased with them. They look to be a longer lasting tire. 

[bwringer]

On 9/26/2024 at 3:19 PM, jthayer09 said:

I genuinely believe motorcycle tire pricing is fixed - the manufacturers are, for all intents and purposes, behaving like cartels. 

There's no reason any designs over 5-years old should be the prices they are, by then the company has more than made back their money on RnD and casting of the initial molds. See: Dunlop RoadSmart III is 7 years old now and it costs 30-50% more than when it first launched depending on where and when you buy.

Could you imagine? If an entire car category across multiple manufacturers' MSRPs ballooned in price the same proportions that motorcycle tire prices have there'd be DOJ investigation immediately. The same way the DOJ is fighting food price fixing currently.

I hope EU/US regulators actually take a look at this and either find manufacturers are price fixing, or can at least shed transparency as to why the costs have risen out of proportion to other market categories.

More on-topic: I've been running the Conti Road Attack 4 for 1,600 miles now on the Super Duke GT and the rear is by far the best sport touring rear I have ever ridden on if you are on the "sport" side of sport-touring. I thought I was going to have buyer's remorse with the price tag but it's been 1,600 miles of smiles.

Motorcycle tire prices suddenly jumped 50-80% in 2022-23. As with many groceries, some inflation is just a fact of life, but the obvious gouging was just egregious. Car tires have jumped as well, but not as much, 15-25% or so.

Unlike groceries or car tires, not everyone needs motorcycle tires... so the odds of any official attention to the matter are extremely low.

There has been a LOT of consolidation in motorcycle tire brands over the years, and like everything else, production has been inexorably moving to China.

"German" Metzeler was acquired by "Italian" Pirelli in 1986, and now the majority owner is a massive state-owned Chinese company called ChemChina. The Pirellis on my bike right now were made in China.

"American" brand Dunlop is owned by Japan-based Sumitomo, which also owns "American" Goodyear, which owns "American" Cooper which owns "English" Avon (or maybe Avon considers itself a Goodyear brand?). It's all confusing as hell, and I may not have that exactly correct. Anyway, in 2023, Avon closed their motorcycle tire plant in England (I was unfortunate enough to get a couple of defective Avon tires made in the last few months of English production...). It's not entirely clear where and whether production has or will re-start...

Dunlop is proud of touting their US plant producing motorcycle tires, but it primarily makes the tires for Harleys. They have motorcycle plants overseas as well. 

It's an incredibly complicated mess, with motorcycle tire production all over the world. The ownership and production have nothing at all to do with the nationality of the brand name. I've installed tires made in England, Brazil, Korea, Germany, the USA, Spain, Japan, France, Taiwan, China, Malaysia and many other countries besides. The effects on quality are... debatable. But high quality tires can be made anywhere.

Michelin is a bit of an exception. They're (somehow) still French-owned and based in France, and owned and managed by the same family. They manufacture tires all over the world, including the US. It's a little murky, but their radial motorcycle tires are primarily made in Spain as far as I can tell. Michelin also stands alone as a perhaps the highest quality brand in general... but they're also usually the most expensive in every category. Well over $500 for a set of PR6 tires is just plain offensive in my book, but many are happy to cough up the cash.

Anyway, motorcycle tires are a scattered and relatively low-volume niche business, with consumer brand allegiances approaching superstition. Metzeler tires haven't been German in a very long time, but a lot of riders haven't figured this out (or they finally spot the "made in China" and completely freak out).

It's unfortunate but not particularly surprising that motorcycle tire makers with well-known brands would seize the opportunity to jack up profits when they can pass off the blame to general inflation.

Even bargain tire maker Shinko increased prices by around 50%.

Over in the dual-sport world, RockyMountainATVMC is moving huge numbers of dual-sport tires sold under their "Tusk" brand at bargain prices. And Kenda, previously infamous for absolutely terrible motorcycle tires, has released the new KM-1 sport-touring tire which performs quite well for very little money. Clearly it's still possible to make quality tires and sell them for decent prices.

Edited September 28 by bwringer

[jthayer09]

1 hour ago, bwringer said:

Even bargain tire maker Shinko increased prices by around 50%.

Within the context of Shinko that's only because their tires were so damn cheap to begin with. $60 for the Shinko tires is 50% increase whereas it's only ~30% on a Dunlop mainstream pair.

A Shinko $120-$140/set jumping to $180-$200/set depending on your tire sizes is much different and palatable than the Dunlop RS3 going from $250/set to nearing $400/set.

Shinko's price increase reflects the increased cost of transportation that every sector got hit with, and we know for a fact their 777 cruiser tires had new molds made when they entered their partnership with Harley, I suspect some of their other tires also got new molds made too (Verge X2 and Raven) judging by the dates at which they released new tire sizes. I'm all for keeping prices in-line to if the company in question is doing so to fund ongoing service and maintenance of existing products.

Thank you for the education on the tire manufacturer consolidation; I had no idea it was that extensive.