Front sprocket wear. Normal for 13k km?

[petshark]

I was about to put the new DID VX3 chain on and paused when I saw the front sprocket. @tktplz Does this look at least as good as yours when you put a new chain on at 13.000 miles? (referring to this post). I want to follow your advise but I have to make sure that this looks normal for 12.500 km. (7800 miles)

I asked on Facebook to be able to decide quickly if I could proceed or order sprockets after all. Cue 80 replies with the usual polarization. One half said replace, the other half said still good... add some extreme answers and people claiming to be experienced mechanics on both sides and I just cleaned the area and closed it back up. The dealer for one agreed that at this mileage I can put a new chain on there and replace the sprockets when the second chain is worn but... he didn't see this sprocket.

Where I live the gold DID VX3 chain is only 80 euros and both sprockets are 60 euros so if I get a few 1000 miles less out of the chain It's still less  expensive than replacing the sprockets prematurely.

So what do you think? Normal wear for this mileage or did my chain do bad things to it?

SMALL PRINT: I appreciate all input but there is no need for a flood of "ALWAYS REPLACE SPROCKETS WITH CHAIN". I am a rational person and I suspect that people that follow this  advice will never get the chance to see if it was really necessary so it could be overkill. I will however take that opinion in consideration but here I am interested in real world examples of people who do sometimes do 2 chains for 1 sprocket set.

[nhchris]

I think that sprocket looks OK, with normal wear for the (low) mileage.  No need to replace at this time IMHO.

I replaced my front at 12k miles but only because I switched to a 17-tooth front sprocket for highway use. Had I not made that change, I would have just replaced the chain.

In the world of unlimited motorcycle love and excess spending, replacing both sprockets and chain each time is ideal, even if not really necessary.

[Warchild]

Well if you're going to ask the question, then be prepared for all the detractors and social media 'engineers' to answer with a bunch of snarky answers and general crap.  Sorry, petshark, that's the way keyboard commandos work, sadly enough.

To answer your question...

I would simply stick to traditional recommendations that are based on real-world experience. It is indeed short-sighted to replace a chain, but not the sprockets (even though you have relatively low mileage on this set). Generally speaking, if you install a new chain without changing the sprockets also, you may expect a shorter chain life. It appears that Yamaha bean-counters won the argument to use a modest-quality chain-sprocket set - that alone is reason enough to swap them out with a quality set. 

I am approaching 4000 miles on my 2020 Tracer that I bought about six weeks ago. I have ridden chain bikes for many decades, I know when a drivetrain is showing wear. Mine is already... a bit surprising for a modest-horsepower machine.  I am replacing mine before a heavy-duty trip (with the wife onboard) in mid June. 

This link may not be of use to you there in Belgium, but it makes this shopping task easier:
 

Yamaha Tracer 900 / 900GT | Sprockets & Chain Kits | Sprocket Center

---

Sprocket Center is dedicated to being the world's premium...

 

[peteinpa]

Unless the other side looks the same, The chain is out of alignment. Wore the outside pretty badly.

Get a new front sprocket, they're under $12 here for a Sun Star. Rear sprocket will be fine.

[Wintersdark]

My rule of thumb is if there's no noticeable sprocket wear, the spockets stay.  Particularly as I'm running an auto oiler, my spockets stay very well lubed and generally really last.  I wouldn't say any firm "two chains per sprocket set" rule, mind you, as it's dependent entirely on how worn they are. 

People will say what they say, and it's something I'm definitely not really interested in arguing about, but my direct experience over hundreds of thousands of kilometers and 25 years has been that:

1) I get chain and sprocket life that's longer than what most of my fellow riders get

2) I change my sprockets *way* less often (again, only when there's visible wear, vs. always changing because "that's what you're supposed to do") 

3) I change sprockets without changing my chain.

I understand the theory behind "swap it all as a set" but I feel most people's only direct experience is when they've swapped individual parts when the other parts are also badly worn, so not good data points.  For example, my current chain+front sprocket has 15k on it, rear has ~8000km.  My sprockets are both *beautiful*.  If I where to change my chain right now, I would not change my sprockets.  If I was changing my sprockets, I wouldn't change my chain.

Maybe my chain will end up with a shorter life, but I always get at least 20k out of a stock chain, and a lot more out of good aftermarket chains.  I feel that's very acceptable, particularly given that I ride in very ugly conditions all the time.  I feel it's a false economy to swap the whole set (particularly if you're not American and can't get really inexpensive quality sets) to save maybe 10% of a chain's life - sprockets cost almost as much as a chain.  

[DavidS]

I always replace both sprockets and the chain as a set - just did mine a few weeks ago. Yes, they do wear at different rates, but replacing them when the first component starts showing wear doesn't cost too much more, and provides peace of mind and a lower chance of getting stuck somewhere. 

I never understood some riders need to get every mile out of parts before replacement. Replacing wear parts on-time, or even a bit early, helps avoid getting stuck somewhere on the side of the road, in the rain, late at night, when all your buddies busy and not available to help! I'm sure many of you ride with "That Guy" who always has a mechanical breakdown because they try to stretch their luck and delay replacing worn parts. I don't want to be "That Guy"

[texscottyd]

@petshark - I’m one of those that always replaces chains & sprockets as a matched set, so admittedly I have a predisposition to suggest the same.  

But, looking closely at your photo, I would be concerned about the sprocket.   There’s obvious wear from the sideplates of the chain, but more importantly, the teeth look to have a significant wear ramp, and aren’t symmetrical.   If you’re looking to fix that vibration and noise issue, this isn’t going to help:   Since you don’t know the history, I would start fresh, maintain properly, and then perhaps change chain only on the next replacement cycle.  

 

[peteinpa]

Add this to the mix...Just found a 2015 Delboy video of him changing the front sprocket ONLY at 10k miles.

Once I put on a set I never look at the front sprocket till the next chain change. Usually 20K miles. Won't do that again.

At 10K miles the front sprocket is already hooking, so wearing the chain faster. If I can get a chain to 30k miles or more just by putting on 2 extra fronts per chain it's worth it.

Just remember even a 16 tooth front is only pulling with 8 teeth at any time. Not much. It also spins 3 times faster than the rear. More wear.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by peteinpa

[whisperquiet]

I just checked my chain and sprockets on my Tracer GT with 12112 miles/19488 kms.  The countershaft sprocket has a very slight hook to it, but does not show as much wear as the OP.  The rear sprocket looks very good and the OEM chain is just OK.  I will be replacing the chain and sprockets at around 13000 miles when the rear tire is replaced.

 I run the chain slack on the loose end of in spec.

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by whisperquiet

[Wintersdark]

5 hours ago, DavidS said:

I always replace both sprockets and the chain as a set - just did mine a few weeks ago. Yes, they do wear at different rates, but replacing them when the first component starts showing wear doesn't cost too much more, and provides peace of mind and a lower chance of getting stuck somewhere. 

I never understood some riders need to get every mile out of parts before replacement. Replacing wear parts on-time, or even a bit early, helps avoid getting stuck somewhere on the side of the road, in the rain, late at night, when all your buddies busy and not available to help! I'm sure many of you ride with "That Guy" who always has a mechanical breakdown because they try to stretch their luck and delay replacing worn parts. I don't want to be "That Guy"

This is what I'm talking about though.  I'll replace sprockets *with visible wear*, or a chain that's visibly kinky despite adequate lubrication.  This is replacing wear parts on time - in no way am I advocating people ride sprockets or chains till they fail (or are anywhere close to failing).  Just that changing everything as a set - white great for peace of mind - isn't necessary if those parts are not worn.

Nobody likes That Guy, and everyone who's been on group rides has encountered That Guy.  But there are *miles* between being That Guy and changing out perfectly good sprockets.  

I mean, the sprocket above?  I'd replace that for sure.  I don't know if I'd replace the chain; I'd have to see it turning, but I wouldn't replace it as a matter of course if it's ok.  But that said, even the clearly worn sprocket above (which I'd definitely change)?  He can go many, many miles without a problem, short of obviously increasing chain wear.  

Mostly, just because these things generally have to be bought from the US.  At least, I've not found a good place in Canada to buy custom chain and sprocket kits like Sprocket Center etc, which is particularly necessary when running non-standard sprockets.  And when doing so, you're looking at huge shipping costs.  My 47 tooth rear sprocket ended up costing me around $100USD/$130CAD at the time.   I can avoid shipping costs by having a shop order them, but they'll sell at a huge markup, or price match.... The US price+shipping.  

[petshark]

A lot of valid points and unlike facebook there's not one on here that I quickly scroll over and ignore. 👍

The shop manual's advice is this:

If I only had this to go on, I would think that the sprocket was still really good because I honestly don't know what I'm looking at. I need to see a new sprocket first. Seeing that most agree that it has to go I'll order a new one. Indeed this bike has problems enough so I'd better play it safe.

7 hours ago, peteinpa said:

Unless the other side looks the same, The chain is out of alignment. Wore the outside pretty badly.

I aligned it not long after I got it using the string method and the bike always tracked straight hands-free. But when I noticed the chain sitting to the right on the rear sprocket  (first pic below) I redid the alignment using a caliper in the space beneath the set screw. I got a different result so I may indeed have been a little off, although I really did a meticulous job with the string method, going back and forth numerous times. I just ordered a motion pro alignment tool for the new chain so that it's easier to check.

If the rear sprocket looks bad please let me know because I am about to order the front sprocket only. I still don't know what to look at.. I see some wear but have no idea how bad it is. Thanks!

[tktplz]

6 hours ago, texscottyd said:

But, looking closely at your photo, I would be concerned about the sprocket.   There’s obvious wear from the sideplates of the chain, but more importantly, the teeth look to have a significant wear ramp, and aren’t symmetrical.

I'm with texscottyd on this. Mine had no hook to it. I think he had the chain misaligned and also no lubed enough. If you are going to get rid of the vibration I'd change the front. While you're at it since you are changing 2 out of 3 things I'd do the rear too. That way you know with proper care you will get 30,000 miles plus on the new parts. And that's all I've got to say about that!   

[tktplz]

2 hours ago, petshark said:

A lot of valid points and unlike facebook there's not one on here that I quickly scroll over and ignore. 👍

The shop manual's advice is this:

If I only had this to go on, I would think that the sprocket was still really good because I honestly don't know what I'm looking at. I need to see a new sprocket first. Seeing that most agree that it has to go I'll order a new one. Indeed this bike has problems enough so I'd better play it safe.

I aligned it not long after I got it using the string method and the bike always tracked straight hands-free. But when I noticed the chain sitting to the right on the rear sprocket  (first pic below) I redid the alignment using a caliper in the space beneath the set screw. I got a different result so I may indeed have been a little off, although I really did a meticulous job with the string method, going back and forth numerous times. I just ordered a motion pro alignment tool for the new chain so that it's easier to check.

If the rear sprocket looks bad please let me know because I am about to order the front sprocket only. I still don't know what to look at.. I see some wear but have no idea how bad it is. Thanks!

Man those blue wheels look good! I don't see wear on the rear but I'd change it since you are doing 2 out of 3 things. A rear is less than 50 bucks I think. Make sure you get a new front sprocket bolt and washer too. I believe, and don't worry they will correct me if I'm wrong, LOL! I believe the front bolt and washer are single use. Also ask around. The stock front sprocket has a rubber like bushing thingie. Not sure, the word escapes me. I don't think they make 1 non-oem that has that. They are all solid. Oh well, just opened another can of worms. That's OK, there are plenty of people here with just as much experience or even more than me by far. I've only been riding 55.5 years. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by tktplz

[Buggy Nate]

10 hours ago, peteinpa said:

Unless the other side looks the same, The chain is out of alignment. Wore the outside pretty badly.

Get a new front sprocket, they're under $12 here for a Sun Star. Rear sprocket will be fine.

This! There is 100% alignment issues going on there. Probably why the chain wore out quick too. My old single thumper got a lot more out of chains.

[petshark]

JT Front (with rubber) and Supersprox Stealth (black and gold) are on the way. 😇