Junkie

This is one of the cases where the longer swingarm of the Tracer 900 would be a big benefit vs the FJ09. 

I'm 175lb, bike has AK20s and 8983, sprung a little stiff for solo/a little soft for 2 up. Sag is currently correct for solo rider, I need to fix that...

I notice a big difference passenger vs not, and a significant difference between my current GF at 110 and my ex at 140.

Hydraulic lifters are bulkier, heavier, and don't allow as much force to be applied to the valve. By going shim under bucket, weight is minimized, the engine can be more compact, and you can run more aggressive cam profiles. 

I think most of it is most likely space issues rather than the others on these bikes. 

Some bikes have been shim over bucket - I believe the GS500E was that way. The downside is that the shim could theoretically come out if your profiles are too aggressive. 

I'm not sure I've seen hydraulic valves on an OHC engine. I know my old Integra used rocker arms and called for fairly frequent manual adjustment. I know my old Subaru Outback used shims, although I don't recall if they were under or over bucket. Using a hydraulic adjuster an an OHC engine would make it dramatically larger I imagine. In comparison, on a pushrod engine, a hydraulic lifter (hydraulic roller lifter at that) takes up what's otherwise wasted space, so the downsides are minimal. 

There are knock offs of the Akra. Centerstand delete is a no go for me if that's the case though. Thanks. 

I was going to give the same advice as bwringer: mock it up before fitting the chain, and see if you have adequate slack with 110. If you do, run it. If you don't, run 112. Once you've figured it out, cut to length. 

A longer (effective) swingarm will slow handling somewhat, reduce wheelies, and soften the rear suspension. Not saying it's a huge amount, but it's there. 

Changing chain length by 2 links changes swingarm length by 5/8" or 16mm, or near enough to make no difference (the angle means it's a hair less). Internet sources state that the Tracer 900 has a 60mm longer wheelbase (I believe all in the swingarm). That means that they added 8 links. It makes the bike feel like more of a sport touring bike and less of a sportbike. Which one is right for you depends on what you're using the bike for. If it's mostly solo riding on twisty roads, you probably want the FZ/FJ swingarm. If it's for lots of 2 up and straighter roads, the Tracer swingarm makes more sense. 

Of course, 110 vs 112 is a much smaller change than 110 vs 118. 

Just now, Toddtr said:

You just did again, it works or EVERYONE would be replacing it. Pretty sure that’s not the case and it’s FJ09 Tracer not FZ07. Are you saying they have the exact same parts and if so you know this because you work for Yamaha? If that’s the case then why have you not informed them of this terrible design flaw? Or perhaps it looks the same so that means it is the same? Hamburger 

I'm saying that the part number for the axle nut is the same for the FJ09 as the FZ07, 90185-18009-00. It's easy to look at a parts fiche and figure this out. If you order an axle nut for either, you get the exact same part. 

No matter what the part, there are always manufacturing tolerances and therefore any given part has a quality range. Different axle blocks end up at different hardnesses, different fits vs the axle, different axle nuts lock at different torque values. It's entirely possible for most combinations to be tolerable, but some to fail due to no fault of the owner or any mechanic who touches it. If that happens when all of the parts are in spec, that's a design failure. If it happens with all OEM parts and some aren't in spec, it's a manufacturing failure.

Do I know that that's the case here? No, unlike you, who knows that Yamaha is perfect and could never possibly make a mistake. I'm sure they've never had a single recall or warranty claim either, as they've never had a single design or manufacturing failure. 

Where did I say that it worked for it's designed purpose? It's possible that the nut refused to loosen and things had to be cut off. 

Given that there are apparently many stories of the FZ07 part failing the very first time it comes off, and it uses the same axle nut, it sounds to me like there's a failure at the design or manufacture phase.

On 2/10/2021 at 7:22 PM, Toddtr said:

Some people shouldn’t work on things, l believe this is a great example of one of those people. I’ve never had an issue with mine and I’m sure most haven’t but to each their own. Probably the same bike has many stripped out bolts as well, being your own mechanic has rewards only if you have the ability. 

betoney's block clearly deformed when it was being loosened. it's entirely possible that he did nothing wrong. 

For anyone suggesting lubing the chain like that... I recommend against it. Lots of people have lost fingers that way. 

If you insist, at least please don't try to clean the chain that way. Be very careful, don't use a rag, just lube.

2 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

On my old Penske to weigh you have to break the lock nut and remove the bottom clevis Bolt, turn the Clevis while holding the body Bolt as seen in the picture

I did that on a previous bike and was then told that you can do what I'm saying. Maybe it isn't universal. 

My FJ09 has a stock header with a Scorpion slip on currently. 

I see that Akra (as well as some other companies) make a full exhaust with a loop in it, to increase length. I've read on FZ forums that they produce significantly more torque. 

Has anyone here tried one? How about the $230 China clones? I have friends who have run China full exhausts on other bikes and they were decent. 

Not that there's anything wrong with what I have, I've just always liked full exhausts even though I try to keep them quiet-ish (I put the dB killer in the Scorpion).

6 minutes ago, 2and3cylinders said:

I would just temporarily as a starting point RAISE the tubes about 6 mm, no more than 8, add a bit of preload, increase rebound and compression 4 clicks, and add a bit of shock preload but soften compression but increase rebound slightly.  Then give it a door go in the fast and tight stuff but consider hiway and in-town comfort.  Lengthening the shock entails removing at least the linkage, so if you have over 24k miles, it'd be a good time to clean and lube the swing arm and linkage bearings and shock bearing & bushing...

Lengthening a length adjustable Penske or Ohlins is very easy: you loosen the jam nut (silver in my picture) and thread the length adjustment nut (black) away from the clevis, which lengthens the shock. Then, tighten the jam nut. I'd say it's easier than adjusting fork height as long as you have the right size wrench (on a Penske I believe it's 1"). Adjusting fork height requires touching 6 fasteners at least 2 times each, rather than touching one fastener once and another twice. 

I had my suspension dialed in for me on Saturday before I rode it. Rear sag was spot on, front sag was low (so he removed some preload), damping on both ends was a little stiff (I suspect it was set up during summer, fork and shock oil are thicker when it's cold). 

Bike has 14k on it, so while it could probably use some chassis lubrication it isn't in dire need of it. I'll do it at some point anyway.

I know the basics of how it works, but different bikes are set up differently from the factory and it's nice to have input from someone about how this specific bike is configured. 

Having taken it on a decent ride Saturday, I'd certainly like to make the geometry a little more aggressive. I need to talk to Traxxion and confirm that the shock is set up to have a range from -6mm to +6mm, if that's the case I believe mine might be set just a little bit under stock length. 

I'm considering raising the front of the bike about 10mm (pushing the forks down in the triples), and raising the rear of the bike about 15mm (based on your number, shock approximately +5mm) to see how it does. 

I have a decent welding setup and am not awful at it, so I can make and attach an end plate for the sidestand and center stand if needed.

On 2/6/2021 at 10:12 AM, fr8dog said:

I wasn't too clear. Dave said he owns a Tracer (maybe he said MT or FZ, not sure) and moved the forks in the clamps. Said he wanted the bike to turn in quicker.

At Cycle Gear I received the the normal adjustment you receive for $40.00 which included questions on style of riding, sag adjustment then test ride and adjust again if necessary.. He was pretty thorough. Adjustment/Test Ride three times. He had a steady flow of bikes to adjust all day. 

I watched him adjust three Ducatis. Not sure what was up (I didn't ask), but he took a hammer to the shock on all three. Shock adjustment on those were intense. 

The forum is very informative. Someone will probably respond with a more helpful response than I gave you. 

 

 

sometimes the only way to get the preload ring to turn is with a hammer and punch. 

since I have a length adjustable shock, I'm more inclined to raise the rear than lower the front

I just bought a 2016 FJ09 with the Yamaha mounts installed for saddle bags, but I don't have any luggage for them. 

What hard bag options are available that'll fit those mounts?

I'd be surprised if Dave Moss was moving the forks in the clamps in a Cycle Gear suspension adjustment but I suppose it's possible. 

In general, raising the rear or lowering the front will make the bike turn in quicker and put more weight on the front wheel, at the expense of stability. Raising or lowering the entire bike a fixed amount mostly impacts anti-squat geometry, a higher bike will squat less on the gas and therefore be less inclined to run wide, but at the expense of some rear tire traction. 

I'm not new to riding or suspension (I race supermoto, obviously different bikes), but different bikes want different changes and I figured asking is easier than making the adjustments and testing myself.

I'm aware that it's to get the bike geometry correct, but in many cases a shorter rider will make compromises so that they can easily ride the bike. I was stating height just to make it clear that I don't need to make any of those compromises. 

I have an appointment with a suspension tuner tomorrow, but that doesn't mean that he knows all of the right geometry tweaks on an FJ09. 

12mm is the shock length adjustment, ride height change is almost certainly a few times that. I measured fork cap extension length and it's around .85"/22mm and I imagine rear ride height would change significantly more than that from a 12mm shock length change - hell, if my shock is set dead center (don't know if it is), I imagine I could probably raise it that much.

I just picked up an FJ09 with AK20s and a Penske 8983. 

Where's the right place to run ride height? I usually run things pretty tall (I'm 6'2"), but could use some fork height and shock length suggestions. 

The AK20s have extended caps that allow something like an inch of extra height, and the 8983 is length adjustable, so I'm talking about ride height rather than simply preload.