StealthAu

Traded the tracer in today. It was a good bike, a bit of a hooligan machine as it eggs you on to give it a little more...

For inflating the rear wheel, get an angled valve at the next tyre change as mentioned. 

In the meantime, you will notice there are large holes through the hub of the wheel. These are there for a reason. Feed the air hose through the holes to the valve, makes it a lot easier. Same on the tracers and a bunch of other yamahas. 

105n/m is about as far as you can go on the stock shock. With a 105 I set my rebound at  4 clicks out, 10,000+km later I'm at 2. I'll likely replace the shock before it hits 20,000km. 

To replace the spring - Compress the spring. The collar falls down, little piece inside the collar comes out. 

Hard to describe but easy to see once the spring is compressed. 

If you don't have the tools/your tools aren't suitable, take the shock and spring to a shop. It is a quick and easy job with the right tools so wont cost much. 

Replace fork springs too. You might think you don't need to now, you'll realise you should have pretty quickly. 

+$400 over the base model makes it an easy decision. That's awesome value with the ohlins shock.  

I feel with the mt09 the base model and upgrading the suspension is a better choice. 

The MT10, I'd rather the sp model. The semi active ohlins setup is great and worth the extra. 

It all comes down to the individual. Ride them both and decide from there. Is the sp right for you, or could you have a better ride buying and upgrading the stock variant. 

6 hours ago, KillEmAll4u said:

I know this is an old thread but I am recently troubled by the same issue. I want traction control to be off at startup. I do have the powervision 3 ECU flasher but there is no option to modify startup conditions of the traction control. Just wondering if anyone who has had their ECU flashed by sending it out to one of the pro tuners has had the option of traction control off at start up. Thanks!

I haven't gotten around to it yet, but as mentioned in this thread, adding a time delay relay to the circuit will result in traction control defaulting off. 

On 7/20/2020 at 7:27 PM, Bahadir said:

many thanks all for your supportive information

I also own 900 GT since 2 months. Although I have not troubles during sharp cornerings from the stability and ability point of view, I have problem with the scratching pegs and center stand which makes me afraid from more lean angles when needed. I'm 90 kg/around 200 pounds. I have just configured the front and rear preloads by myself, the latest sag values are around 45mm front and 42mm rear and I hope that this will sufficiently increase the ground clearance. The stock sag values were around 50 mm and a bit more. Also I slightly increased the ribound and compression following by the increased preload. Do you think that I am focusing to the right place for the fixing scratching issues, what could be the minimum sag values for 900GT (consider that free sufficient sag still there). If 1/3 ratio is valid for street then 45-40 mm is the minimum for tracer where max travel around 140 mm. should I really remove the center stand and remove the peg rubbing sticks? Any advise?

Many thanks in advance.   

Get new springs. Even if you can get the bike into the right sag range, it doesn't mean it is sprung right for you. 

3 hours ago, piotrek said:

I find that temperature has an effect as well. I tend to open the valves a click during shoulder seasons. I will change the oil after each riding season, say 10-15K kms. Over the course of the season there will be a variance of maybe 2 clicks overall due to these factors.

Yes, this too. I don't really think much of this point as the temperature variance is minimal winter to summer here. 

On 7/10/2020 at 3:36 AM, Stew said:

So I've decided to get the bike exactly the way I want it. I'm not that fussed about tweaking and fiddling with the suspension once I get it working the way I like.

 

 

As you ride i, fork oil breaks down. Oil gets thinner, both rebound and compression damping effects reduce. 

This results in suspension behaving differently over time. With external adjusters, you can increase damping over time to compensate for this. Or, you can change fork fluid more frequently. 

I have one bike with no external hydraulic adjustment. I find myself replacing the fork oil every 5,000km to maintain the performance I want. 

Bikes with external adjusters, I'll let go up to 20,000km (max) between fork services, making adjustments periodically between services. 

On 7/17/2018 at 4:41 AM, redfjniner said:

One other note regarding Metzler and ‎Pirelli tires: These are the only makes that I have wore the rubber off to the cords (5X) and through the cords once leaving me having to tow my bike home 150 miles. I once had to replace a tire in Kalispel, MT and it was a Metzler. Metzler tires are made by Pirelli. Here is my last Angel ST at 5300 miles:
 
 

 
Never had that problem with Dunlops, Bridstones, Avons, or Michelins.  I always like the performance of the Angel's and the Metzlers, just dislike the quickness they disappears when about 1mm near the wear bars.
 
 
 
 
 
 

The Pierelli Angel GT ang GT2 are way better than the ST were. ST were good tyres with pretty ordinary mileage, I think they were a single compound from memory. 

The GT's will get you twice as far between changes and have great grip in the dry and wet. 

Your diagram is right for marking bottom out. Forks need to be fully extended when doing this. 

The zip tie is more for measuring how much suspension you are using.

Get a friend or two to help you set your sag. with you on the bike, you want both the front and rear to be compressed around 40mm from fully extended. 

5 hours ago, WKE002 said:

Sorry for my ignorant, more or less i know sag/preload,  in layman term, what is the reference point for our Tracer/GT if i put a zip tie up the fork seal and ride around here and there. if there are no mm/cm/inch, should it not exceed half from fork seal or quarter from fork seal or..... 

i doubt my weight of 63kgs will not see the bottom out the zip tie but a reference on the distant would be a good start for me.

My past Harley and Triump do not have these adjustment on the front. 

 

 

 

Your old bikes could still be adjusted, just need to open the forks to do so.

For the Tracer... you have 137mm of fork travel available, as per the manual. For those wondering how fork preload effects total travel, it doesn't. You would need to compress the springs a hell of a lot more than the preload adjusters can to limit total travel. 

Anyway, back to you, and others working out how to setup the forks. 

Lift the front wheel off the ground and measure 137mm down from the fork seal. Mark the fork tube here with a sharpie so you have a visual representation of where bottom out is. 

Chuck a zip tie on that fork leg so you have a visual representation of how much fork travel you are using. 

Set your sag, front and rear. Around 40mm (+/-5mm) is good. Keep it consistent front to rear. If you can't get it in this range, you need to look at new springs immediately. Not after the new exhaust or whatever else. 

Set your sag before you do anything else!

Set your rebound front and rear. Push down on your forks and release. it should come back up and stop. If it bounces, add more rebound damping. Do the same to the rear. You want the least amount of rebound damping that prevents it from bouncing. 

Go for a ride with a small flat head screw driver. find a road with some bumps,  rough surface or the like. 

Open the compression damping and see how it feels. Close it and see how it feels. Know what bad feels like so you can find the right setup. 

Set it back in the middle and decide from there, do you want to try two clicks less or two clicks more? Find where you want it. 

Now you need to see if that setup works. Each time you take a break, get where you are going, note where the zip tie is and lift it back up. 

Start by taking it somewhat easy, check where the tie is. Ride a little harder, check the zip tie.

If the zip tie isn't approaching bottom out, it is safe to try some hard braking, really lean on them. After some hard braking, you want a good 10mm or more gap between the tie and the bottom out mark. If confidence is preventing you from braking harder, allow for a 20mm gap instead of 10mm. 

If you don't have enough of a safety gap between it and the bottom out mark, add a couple clicks of compression damping. If you need to add so much compression damping that it poorly effects ride comfort, you need stiffer springs. 

Check the zip tie regularly. Check the rebound regularly. As the fork and shock oil age, you'll need to increase damping. 

2 hours ago, BBB said:

You put a cable tie around the fork, just below the fork seals. It should be tight enough that it doesn’t slip under gravity, but still allows the fork to move properly. You then go for an enthusiastic ride that puts the bike over a normal range of speeds, bumps in the road and some sharp braking from high speed. The cable tie should now be towards the bottom of the fork, as they have compressed during the ride, but you should have at least 10mm of travel left. This is for the occasion when you hit a very big bump in the road.

If the cable tie is completely at the bottom of the fork, you have no safety margin, the forks will bottom out completely. In this case your springs are probably too weak for your weight and riding style. You can add preload and try again but it’s a compromise.

If the cable tie hasn’t moved much, you are either not riding hard enough, or you have too much preload.

Bottom out is something like 18mm up from the bottom of the tube. Meaning, they'll bottom out internally while some fork tube is still showing. 

25 minutes ago, piotrek said:

You can also contact RaceTech and see if they have a spring in the right size. FortNine is a RaceTech reseller here. A replacement spring for my Nitron would be 6" x 2.29" (L x ID), for example... a standard size listed on the RaceTech website as SRSP 5815107. I could go up to 700lb/in according to their chart (SRSP 5815125). They confirmed this would be the spring series for my shock.

You could likely find a stiffer spring that will fit the stock shock, but you are limited by the stock valving. 

105nm/mm is probably as far as you want to go. Rebound damping won't do anything with a 130nm/mm spring. 

4 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

I only rarely ride two up, though I do take a bunch of longer trips packing gear, and push the bike really aggressively.

Where did you get the spring for the rear?  Realistically, I'm just not going to be able to afford a whole new shock any time soon ($1000usd -> $1350cad; ouch), so I'd be open to getting a stiffer spring, even if not as stiff as they recommend.  As it stands now, I can bottom the stock shock out *hard*, which is both pretty painful and also super sketchy if it happens at speed in a corner. 

I bought mine from Brooks Suspension in the UK. It is a Ktech spring, you will likely have a Ktech dealer closer to you. 

4 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

 

I did indeed consider that, and asked them about it.  They said:

Out back, you're going to need a 750 lb/spring at a minimum (stock is 550 lb/in).  The trouble here is that there is no quick/easy fix.  While it's technically possible to swap the spring out, the factory damping has a hard enough time controlling the 550 spring.  Going up 36% really puts a strain on the rebound damping.  My best advice would be to invest in a new shock that is custom built for the heavier spring.  Most brands are off the shelf with somewhat limited spring rate availabilities (depending on model).  However, we can build whatever you'd need with Penske.  It's not the least expensive route, but it's the best we can offer you given the situation.

Do you mostly ride two up? 

750 lb/inch equals 130nm/mm. That is a serious spring, even for you at 300lbs... They are definitely right regarding rebound damping on stock shock, it won't do squat with that spring.  

I got a 105nm/mm for mine, I'm 220lbs. No preload for just me. 

Me and a passenger, 400lbs total, it feels real nice. Rebound damping works with this spring, but will likely run out of adjustment around 20,000km. 

Issue with only doing the front is, it will emphasis how shit the rear is.  

6 hours ago, Wintersdark said:

I hear that!

The lowest rider sag I could manage was ~52mm with the stock springs on max preload - I'm a 300lb dude.  I've got some new springs on the way from Stoltec, and cannot wait to see what it's like with them and the higher oil level they recommended. 

Gotta replace the rear shock too, when I can.  They're stupid expensive though, whereas the replacement springs for the forks where surprisingly affordable. 

 

It'll be nice, for my first time ever, to have a bike actually sprung for my weight.

Have you considered getting just a spring for the rear shock? It is cheap and will give you 20,000km or so to look for a new shock. 

Changing oil frequently is a good thing, yes.. I tend to do it every 10 - 20,000km. 10,000km is the better, I wouldn't exceed 20,000km, it really has to be changed by then. 

I could maintain the stock oil and force myself to change it within 10,000km intervals, though if it becomes necessity to change it this frequently, you're really running the wrong fork oil. 

You're spot on the weight and cst. 5w Yamilube (obviously) or Motul is good for my application, haven't checked the others. Best to pick a brand and stick with it. I use motul as it is most readily available option where I am. 

I did see that. I asked if it were necessary to change oil viscosity if you were due for fork service. But if you are due for service in winter, 3- 6 months away, you probably need to review your oil choice or valving. What path did you decide on?

Springs are relatively cheap. Less than $200USD (from memory) front and rear would cover it if you do your own work. 

Chuck a zip tie around one of your fork legs, loose so it can easily slide up and down.

Mark where bottom out is on the tube with a sharpie, it somewhere around 20 mm up from memory, check for yourself. With the wheel off the ground, measure down 137mm from outer fork tube and mark a dot there. 

This will give you a visual representation of how much fork travel you are using. 

If it is bottoming out, or even getting too close, it becomes a safety issue. 

6 hours ago, betoney said:

I agree with you about viscosity affecting the orifice settings but not sure about 5w lasting longer.  For every stroke of the fork you are still moving the same amount of fluid through the internals.  No?🤷‍♀️

As oil ages, it gets thinner. Hence, over time you progressively dial in more damping. 

With the heavier springs, 2.5w oil is fine in the left leg. In the right leg, fresh 2.5w I set my rebound 3 clicks out. 10,000km later, I'm at the last click. No where to go now, have to replace the oil. 

5w doesn't have a longer life in general to 2.5w, it is an application thing. Right now at ~10,000km I need to replace the oil in my right leg, yet the left would still be good for another ~10,000km.

If I had replaced the oil with 5w in the right leg when I installed the springs, my rebound would have been set further out to start with and I'd have more adjustment available now. 

If you pay someone else to do the spanner work, get them to change the oil in the right fork to 5w.

With springs for your weight, stock 2.5w oil the rebound will be towards the limit of adjustment, good for a bit over 10,000km. 5w oil will move your settings towards the middle of the range, extending your service intervals. 

I weigh the same as the OP. I set the preload on the forks to max and still had 50mm or a little more of sag. 

Set the rear to match the front. Had a few extra clicks in the rear, but rather keep it balanced. 

Set the rebound front and rear to where it needs to be, push down on the bike and it comes back up without bouncing. 

Kept dialing in compression damping to try and stop the forks bottoming out every ride until it became uncomfortable to ride. Just couldn't get it to work. 

Installed new springs, to my weight, front and rear. Made all the difference. Enjoyed riding the pants off it for the last 10,000km.

I've got the givi one. Similar sort of disclaimers with weights and speed. Exceed both regularly. 

27 minutes ago, skipperT said:

But why do all this work? Not including the early models, the published spec for the later 900GT is fine. 35-45mm while on the center stand.

-Skip

1 to 3% slack at point of maximum tension is the requirement from an engineering perspective. 

The measurements in the book are a reference point derived from this. Sometimes there are translation errors or whatever else resulting in the info in the book being wrong. As per your example. 

The specs for the GT are right, but I wouldn't know this if I didn't check. When I change the oil, I don't just poor in the specified amount and assume it is right, I check the sight glass..

6 hours ago, betoney said:

Yep, 10mm is around 2%

It  might change a bit on the later models with longer swingarms. 

I checked mine a while back, when I changed the shock spring. I can't find a record of the numbers, but stock specs on the centre stand were right.

When doing this, I set the slack to 3% with everything lined up. Put the shock back in, let the rear wheel hang and measure slack. this value becomes the point where you would adjust your chain. 

Next, remove the shock again and line it all up. Set to 1% and reassemble. Measure the slack again with the rear wheel hanging. This value is what you set it to when adjusting.  

 It sounds like a lot of work, but if you already have your shock out, it'd add 5-10 minutes to the job and provides accurate reference points. 

On 6/16/2020 at 8:06 AM, betoney said:

True, you could always disconnect the rear shock and elevate the rear tire so the output shaft, swingarm and rear axle are level to get the truest idea of the tightest point, so you would always have that reference figure.  Personally, from that tightest measurement, I would add 10mm slack.

You want 1 to 3% of the distance between front and rear sprocket centres. Not a fixed value.