Ticking noise after oil change..

[thewickedw0lf]

I just changed my oil for the 600 miles and now (I'm 99% sure it wasn't there before) there is a ticking noise coming from the right side of the engine. it happens around 2500 rpm and is there regardless of whether or not the clutch is engaged. It kind of sounds like something inside the engine rattling, my buddy with a FZ09 said there is a cam chain tensioner noise but i haven't read anything about that on here?
 

[CDog]

if its there Pre and post clutch... does the pace follow the tire rotation or engine speed... that is clue one to findinf it. and no. my new noise t=ir my chain... had shaft drive b4
 

[thewickedw0lf]

Engine Speed, if I'm in neutral I don't hear it unless I Rev the engine some. I think I might stop by the dealer tomorrow.

[echonc]

I also am hearing some light ticking in neutral. Is this common? My dealer replaced oil and did recall work. I can't recall if noise was there before hand.

[marco]

What kind of engine oil you use? Use the one which is suggested in the user manual. I prefer Castrol full synthetic 10 40 oil
 
 

[goodricht]

I recently started noticing a noise like that as well when ever I start out on a ride... I have about 970 miles on mine, and I just recently started noticing it on the right side.  Not sure what it is. Figure if it gets worse, I'll take it in. Engine is under warranty for the first year I believe!

[Guest rszk]

I have it as well. I'm at 1800km now. Not sure if its the cam chain tensioner or not.

[minsis]

Has anyone found out the issue. I was on a 2k mile journey when I noticed it about 80 miles outside of salt lake. At that point I was at about 2500 miles. I pushed all the way to Reno which was my destination and the noise is still kinda there but it hasn't gotten worse or better. I think I'm going to take it to the local dealer and have them listen in real quick. 

[GoldenPenguin]

It's almost definitely your cam chain tensioner. This is a common issue on FZ/FJ's. It changes tension based on oil pressure. Make sure you have enough oil in your bike and thats really all you can do. You could always get a manual tensioner and do it yourself, but that's generally not advised.

[minsis]

Thanks. The oil level might be a little low. It's in the middle of both marks and I also noticed that the oil was bubbling a bit. I only have 3k miles but I think I'm going to change the oil anyways, I just ride it 2k miles in 3 days and put a lot of hard miles on it. 

[goodricht]

I still notice it with my bike, and I recently asked a dealer about it. The first time I asked a mechanic there, he said the ticking sound I was hearing was my pipes heating up and the metal expanding.... I wanted to slap him and say do I look like an idiot to you? I have had other questions as well and never get a straight answer. So I will not be going back to that dealership. But I went to another local one, and they gave me a more straight answer. He said it's not necessarily a "normal" sound, but he said its not uncommon in those bikes. But that it is nothing I should worry about. Said it wouldn't be worth digging into the engine for. It's a fairly common question with those engines. So guess I'm not going to worry about it.
 
I have found that I only notice the sound initially on start up when the engine is cold. After it's warmed up and the "LOW TEMP" display turns off, the noise goes away.

[adjuster]

The problem is two fold.
 
1: The design of the Cam Chain Tensioner is flawed.
2: The flaw allows the chain to be either too loose, or too tight.
 
The noise is loose. Loose is okay in most cases, but you CAN jump a tooth on the cam spockets or crank sprocket, and that's nearly always fatal as the engine does not have clearance for valves being open when the pistons are up near the top of the stroke. (Bent valve is most likely to happen.)
 
The other side is what happened to my 2014 FZ09 at about 1200 miles. The tensioner has nothing that will stop it from being too tight, and it can just keep racheting out tighter and tighter till the nylon slide bar is eaten up by the chain, the chain contacts the aluminum support the nylon is clipped to, and there you go, the engine seizes up at speed. (70 mph in my case, nearly getting me run over by traffic I'd just cleared, and then "scgreeeech" and the engine locks up, the rear tire locks up, and you are sliding along at 70 mph while the big diesel ford F350 behind you is spooling his turbo....)
 
So far, my 2015 FJ09 has been quiet, I've been listening, and I've had quite a earful from Yamaha over this, and they first told me to pound sand, no warranty coverage, but they changed their mind the same day, and I "traded" in my failed FZ09 on a new FJ09, and lost about 2000.00 in the process, but I have a bike I like much better than the FZ09, and has all the stuff I was planning on adding to the FZ anyway. (Screen, fairings, bigger tank, higher rate springs and dang this LED headlight is nice.)
 
So, what's the fix?
 
Don't use a set screw to try and limit the adjustment part from backing up like some did in the FZ09 side of things. This can work, but since the CCT can keep going out more than it should, if it does that, and you have run a set screw, they will void your warranty.
 
APE and Graves both make manual CCT adjusters. I have the APE unit that I was going to install on the 2014 FZ09 until I realized that the CCT had failed and destroyed the tensioner, running garbage through the motor, and nearly killing me in the process.
 
It's sitting on the bench, I don't know if I'll use it, or not. (Depending on if the tick comes back or not, and how far I want to fight this with Yamaha I guess.)
 
One more thing. The stock CCT does not use oil pressure on the FZ09 engine to push out the tensioner at all. It does spray over the unit, bathing it in oil, but no oil pressure is captured by a piston etc. It does have a complex tooth and cone arrangement with a very cheap spring steel clip holding that in place that can be crushed by a set screw if you go that route. This design is supposed to be set at the factory when assembled, and then can ratchet out and self adjust over time and wear to maintain the pressure on the cam chain. (Using just the spring pressure from the CCT.)
 
As I've pointed out, the failure of the design is the complex nature of the ratchet, BUT more so, the fact that it can be extended WAY TOO FAR. The designers should have measured the max distance of "deployment" and built a CCT that can't push the tensioner too far. If you run out of adjustment, you replace the tensioner slide, and the CCT, and have no failures like mine.
 
At worst, your engine would make the ticking noise, but it would not seize up due to the tensioner being jammed into it by the CCT.
 
One more thing: ON a personal note, I changed my oil to Rotella T Synthetic, and after I did that, the Tick noise got worse. By the second oil change with Rotella, I had decided to buy the APE manual adjuster, and just solve the problem.
 
But before I could install it, the engine failed. I pulled the side case after pulling the stock CCT, and found the eaten up slide, debris and was very stupid to trust my relationship with the local Yamaha service department. (I spent many years working with them at Progressive Insurance, so I figured they would not give me grief if I brought was clearly a mechanical failure to them right? WRONG.
 
If you do find your engine has this same problem, whatever you do, don't take it into the shop with a set screw, or manual APE/Graves unit in there, and the side case cover off.
 
The guy I discussed this with at Yamaha did not know how the part was designed, how it worked, and called it the wrong name a few times. Basically, the folks who decide if you get warranty coverage or not, don't know how the bike works, don't know parts, and are not mechanics, or even trained to be mechanics. Pretty seriously stupid, and I should know, I spent 6 years training insurance adjusters on these very types of problems, how to recognize failure, or design failure v/s impact/loss failure. And I've been working on vehicles since I was 5, built many race engines, mostly turbocharged, and learned the hard way a few times what works, what fails, and why.
 
Amazes me that Yamaha has not come out with a simple manual adjuster for this problem, or go to a proven and simple oil and piston design, not this spring loaded mechanical disaster they have in our bikes right now.
 
With the manual one, you set it and forget it for 10's of thousands of miles.
With a oil/piston one, you do get advanced wear at high RPM/Oil pressure, but let's face it, this engine runs most of it's life at lower/mid RPM, so the oil piston type CCT's would work great, just like they do with automotive applications where the car idles around 99% of the time oil pressure wise.) Heck, if they put a simple ball/spring check valve in the piston to release pressure at high RPM, yet maintain the desired pressure the rest of the time, that would simple compared to this Rube Goldberg CCT they have in our bikes now.
 
Discuss. I have photos if I can get them off my phone if anyone wants to see what failure looks like.