howie333

2 hours ago, KrustyKush said:

On my 21 T9GT I’m past 15k miles on the original chain. It still is in great shape. I don’t fuss over the chain much. It has needed a bit of tightening maybe 3 times since I bought the bike new. I set tension as the book sez, 40-45mm slack at midpoint between sprockets, a point specified in the book as a certain distance from the end of the guide on the swingarm. Once the chain is broken in it should hardly ever need any further adjustment before it dies. I check tension once in awhile during chain lube sessions. I push on the chain at the midpoint, bike on center stand, and if it just touches the rubber guide, it is good to go. The fact that I am now closing in on 20k with this chain proves to me that this method is good. 

I assume 40-45mm slack measured while on centerstand. that's approx. what I measure w/ my 2017 fj-09. 

7 hours ago, betoney said:

If you do a search, it has been discussed many, many times over the years that the manual is wrong concerning chain tension and some excessive torque specs.

I know;  and  I guess I'm just going w/ the ~25mm @ drive line alignment, or w/ my weight on seat which is very close; then take  measurements when on center stand for next slack check. I could be off. opinions are always appreciated.

Thank You...   

16 hours ago, Brentinpdx said:

I went and looked at the service manual for my FJ. I wonder if you are reading it right. The diagram shows the measurement to be 5-15 mm of deflection from center. Not from the bottom of the swing arm.  My FZ1 was to measure from the bottom of the swing arm, a buddies Ninja is the same. The FJ is from the chain in a relaxed position with the swing arm in its lowest position on the center stand.

The instructions in the manual say that it should never be more than 25mm.

Manual states Place the vehicle on the centerstand so that the
rear wheel is elevated.
2. Shift the transmission into the neutral position.
3. Check:
• Drive chain slack "a"
Out of specification ~ Adjust. 

If that's so, adjusting chain to 5-15mm w/swingarm down (on centerstand); bringing rear wheel back up in alignment w/ swingarm and sprockets would tighten chain to point of either chain breakage or damage trans bearing or worse. it's too hard to assume by that diagram given if we are seeing that swingarm lined up w/ anything, we have just a description and measurement that could not be correct.

1 hour ago, peteinpa said:

You CAN'T set your slack this way!

It's all great till you hit a bump, the suspension compresses, and the chain gets tighter!

If you want to be anal,   tie down the suspension till pivot, front sprocket, and rear sprocket are perfectly in line. Set about 1/2inch slack at tight spot in chain.

Put bike on centerstand with tiedown removed and measure slack. THIS  your new measurement to aim for.

OR....Just set for 1.5 inch on centerstand.

Your method is probably right; my weight ends up to pull suspension for the swingarm pivot, front sprocket, and rear sprocket to be very near for that lineup, and only checking @ tight point of chain; still 1/2 slack may be too tight. I have approx. 1.5" or 35mm slack when on centerstand now. If those drive points didn't line up; it may be OK if I rarely or never change bikes load (luggage or passenger).   

Well, so far so good.  My free sag is less than 10mm, but preload is @30% of shock travel @ approx. 39mm. Works well. Ii strapped bike down to my weight on seat, and set chain to approx. 1" (25mm) slack. loose when on side or center stand, but runs fine. I figure best to set common chain slack for when in riding position, then record chain slack then on center stand and use as reference for general chain maintenance.   

Well I installed the Motool suspension sag meter to set my weight w/ tie downs to simulate my weight. I set chain slack as not to move upper chain. Worked well. I set chain @25mm(~1 inch) slack. When on side stand; measures 30-35mm and on centerstand 40-45mm.  hopefully done correctly; I'd want the most accurate slack to be w/ my weight on the bike. 

9 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I suppose you could have someone sit on the bike while the front wheel is in a stand.

Or you could do what betony said "flick the chain up and down to make sure its not tight and forget about it."

If you watch Dave Moss videos when he is checking the chain on various bikes, that is EXACTLY what he does. It is not like measuring the clearance of a bearing to the thousandths of an inch, there is an acceptable range and you generally want it on the looser end of the spectrum because as the suspension compresses it will hit that tightest part of the range.

Notice that there is no tape measure being used in this video. With experience, you can tell if it is tighter than a 12 year old, or way too loose.

 

I Just talked w/ a bike tech in my town; said best is to set slack @ approx. 1-1.25 inch or ~30+mm w/ rider on bike just as you said. I'll set my Motool suspension tool to measure sag, and preload bike to match my weight, then I'll set drive chain slack. Also, as setting chain slack; not to see upper part of chain move as lower is measured to be accurate; either way, Service manual is dangerously wrong on setting drive Chain Slack !   

Thank you...

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Don't focus on that.

Keep it simple, the tightest spot will be when this stuff lines up - whatever stand you use to achieve that.

The center stand is going to let the suspension fully extend vs. side stand vs. rear stand (Pit Bull)

 

The settings noted in the manual are too tight. If you have had other motorcycles and adjusted their chain, the slack on this one will be similar and you don't want it too tight. 

OK; so basically it seems the best way to set chain slack w/ be to put front wheel in chock to achieve that rear assembly lineup shown in diagram; but id have to either pull rear shock bolt out or compress shock to align swingarm as shown in diagram, and then I guess set drive chain slack 35-40mm ?

Thanks for reply... 

 where the chain slack feels right w/ wheel raised and then bike dropped to floor is very different.  

1

2017 Yamaha FJ-09

The Yamaha FJ-09 Service Manual states the Drive chain slack to be @ 5mm-15mm measured while bike is on center stand while wheel is elevated.   I was surprised.  My chain was @45mm. I looked over all discussions to this subject, and seems majority are not using manual's specs; but anywhere from 25mm to 45mm. When I set chain slack @ 32mm on center stand; then I put bike in front wheel chock  to put weight on rear wheel; and found setting tightened up 10mm to a setting @ 22mm. I cant imagine setting slack to manual specs !

Please help me w/ correct way to set this Drive chain slack.

Thank You...

17 hours ago, OZVFR said:

No matter the stock parasitic draw, any decent battery will last many weeks without a tender. 
Even in winter, my bike starts the moment it starts to turn many weeks after standing. 
On my tour of LA to Whistler over 6 weeks, when I got back to Oz the bike started straight away without any hesitation. 
Way too much thought has gone into this thread. You should be fine with the battery you bought. 

I'm sure; but that tells me my Scorpion battery in question is related to it's quality considering it Being on a tender most of the time when not ridden still only lasted < 1 yr.

Thanks for reply...     

14 hours ago, RaYzerman said:

Any bike with a clock, trip odometers and other computers will have a parasitic drain..... bottom line, connect up to a Battery Tender if it's going to sit a week or more.

14 hours ago, RaYzerman said:

Any bike with a clock, trip odometers and other computers will have a parasitic drain..... bottom line, connect up to a Battery Tender if it's going to sit a week or more.

Will Do !   I ordered the Motocross version AGM Yuasa battery for $132. Hope this one works out, and will be more careful

.

2 hours ago, peteinpa said:

My FJ09 came with a Firepower AGM battery.  I never heard of that brand till now.  Still works great after 2+ years and 10k miles. In times of non-use put on a battery tender at least once a month.  All the time is best.

I've been useing Scorpion batteries from  Batteries and stuff in my various bikes for 15+ years.

usually get 7 years out of a battery.

When you receive it, put it on the tender first till solid green  before installation.

The warranty is a year.  Any deffect in a battery will show up by then.  The rest is up to you.  Motorcycles aren't cars.  Their system will keep a good battery good. It won't charge a weak battery well.

 

Thanks for reply. I called Batterystuff about my present Scorpion battery, and told me I should have got the Motocross made by Yuasa in Japan vs. the Scorpion made in China, but what do I know !

9 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I had a job where I was out of town about 6 months of the year, for 12 years.

The best luck I had was fully charging before going out of town, then DISCONNECTING cables. Did that for about 7 years. No problems. Ironically it was the tender that screwed me.

With the older style wet battery (not AGM or lithium) I put a name brand "Battery Tender" on it, thinking it would sense when charged, go into trickle mode, etc.  Came home to a dry battery, it was toast. Water boiled out of it.

As a diagnostic, you figured out the parasitic draw was negligible. How long was it sitting and if it was a "wet" battery, did the level go down? Just curious.

  I've got AGM batteries in all my bikes, no more than 2 weeks w/o charge. I'm now also looking @ the Motocross battery. It supposed to be a relabeled Yuasa, and as reliable as OEM; but still only a 1 year warrantee. I'm still on the fence w/ the Lithium Antigravity.  

11 hours ago, OZVFR said:

If your battery is only 12.2v fully charged it’s stuffed. 
It should be around 13.1v. 
I was going to ask earlier if you tested the battery, I assumed that you had. 

Well; either way I  did assume battery was defective, but I'd like to know what's causing a parasitic draw and to determine Amp/HR performance incase I'd choose a lithium battery replacement because of it draining too quickly destroying battery, but w/ BMS on most Lithium batteries, and choosing a high AH, I should be OK. still not sure which type battery  to choose yet though.   

50 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Awesome. The good news is your charging system is strong.

No more issues if you get a reputable battery.

 14.5-14.8V running AFAIK  . Battery now if charged is approx 12.2 V, and after trying to start several times is down to 11.9V and will not start bike unless I bring voltage up w/ tendor, but will not last. I tested the battery on a Harbor Freight battery testor which showed it weak after charged up, so I guess it's done. I'm shopping now Lith or AGM.

Thanks for replies...

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I don't think that is killing your battery. Letting any vehicle sit unused will kill a battery...

Well, I found 2 fuse outputs causing the parasitic drain. Total drain is .5ma; .34ma on a 7.5A fuse marked (backup) and .14ma 30 amp marked (ABS motor).  I looked up those loads and Backup to basically to backup power to the Clock and odometer as I have suspected, and the ABS motor must need a backup power also. So I guess those parasitic loads are normal and all I need to do is to replace the battery..  I just have to decide AGM vs. Lithium Iron. 

Thanks for replies...

4 hours ago, Your_Boy_Yuriy said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I think this article is true for basically all motorcycles - 

The way to check is to remove the negative battery cable and place your volt-ohm meter in the current (amps) mode. With the key off, place the meters leads between the negative cable and the battery's negative terminal. The current draw should be zero, but a small drain on the order of a few milliamps is acceptable. A drain of an amp or more is reason for further investigation.

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/dead-motorcycle-battery/

Obviously you are going to have to research your meter, and get confident of the reading or else the number is useless. I had a family member Lexus that would drain batteries, drove me nuts. Finally heard an odd clicking sound, there was a CD changer that was "doing work" when ignition was off and it was a factory installed device. That fixed it.

Countless times I have connected battery to various vehicles and seen a small spark, which "shouldn't" be there but it is the world we live in. Get a real, accurate, hard number on the actual ampere draw when ignition is off. That is the starting point. 

A milliamp is equal to one-thousandth of an ampere. Thus, one milliamp is equal to 0.001 amperes.

OK, I've borrowed a quality multimeter, and I'm getting .5ma or .0005A parasitic drain at this time. I'll check all fused outputs to find drain, but I assume its internal clock, or any other memory loads. I just need to know if that draw is normal and required as a minimum.  

Well, All I really need now is to know if the 2017 FJ-09 has an normal parasitic amperage draw while ignition is off. I do have a relay to a fuse bar for brake/flash feature tail light, a chain oiler, 12 v aux. socket and wiring for a GPS. When ignition switch is off, so should be any loads I've added. I'm reading .5 on a 20ma scale, so assume I have a .5m leak. 2ma,20m,or 200m; still reads .5

1 hour ago, OZVFR said:

I've had an SSB lithium battery on my Tracer for over a year.

The actual battery was installed on my 1050 Sprint a year before that, and I pulled it out when I sold it.

Many times the bike has sat for over 4 weeks with no noticeable drop when used again.

It starts better and faster than with the Yuasa gel.

It even went flat once, after leaving a phone charger pugged in for a week and had no problem recharging it with a standard charger. (SSB have a cut out circuit to stop it going completely flat)

I just measured .5ma or 500ma  not sure I'm reading right. I guess I should be concerned. I like the Antigravity lithium Battery cause it's got a Jumper button that will start bike up even when the BMS shut off to save battery from excessive low or high voltage. Looks good unless otherwise I find similar @ a lower price. Battery Mart sells a basic AGM(Scorpion) for $50, and a Motocross (Yuasa version) for $160 ,and batterystuff says its basically same battery w/ a Yuasa sticker! Both 1 year warrentee. No way I'm paying $160 for that short a warrantee !  I don't know what could be causing a parasitic load off a basically stock wiring layout.  

What should the parasitic draw from a 2017 FJ-09 ? That may be a choosing factor for a lithium battery. I should be OK if it's slight with a BMS built into the given battery anyway, but I'll just have to keep it charged when not in use for a week or so. I'd probably need to do that even w/ a AGM battery anyway.

23 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

When it comes to batteries, you have to aim high and pull the trigger. 

Shopping by price will put you back where you started.

Yea, i'm gett'in that. I never thought I'd have to spend $200 for a motorcycle battery that will last close to what they'd used to on my older bikes. I know my Ninja 650 had lower compression than the FJ, and now have small parasitic loads I guess load the battery down. I'd stay w/ a AGM battery if the differences weren't close, maybe $55.    

After some research, seems the Antigravity ATZ-10 lithium Iron battery is probably the best alternative from a AGM battery @$180/ Amazon. There's seems to be as almost as many issues w/ a OEM type Yausa as a Chinese copy brand. NOCO and Shorai are less expensive, some are pleased, but some have had problems even w/ correct chargers and wouldn't buy again.