howie333

15 hours ago, skipperT said:

Shorai require their own charger. 
your local battery plus may require a special charger depending on the Li chemistry. Regardless you’ll need a new charger if you go Lithium. 
Ytz10s for $200 is a good price in my mind. Not to complicate matters, but you can also price a yt12 if you want a bigger battery. It’ll fit if you remove the foam.

-S 

Are there any other brand Lithium Iron type batteries you would recommend, sa. NOCO, Antigravity or similar . I'm seeing them lower than $300. Is there a difference and can any charger rated for any of the LIFEpo4 or Shorai battery safely work?

Thanks...

3 hours ago, skipperT said:

@johnmark101 already steered you in the right direction. Your statement about all batteries being made in one place may be true for all those cheap aftermarket ones, but IMHO you get what you pay for with a Yuasa. However battery prices have gone up considerably so if you’re comparing a $350 stock battery to an equivalent Lithium and don’t mind spending the difference, go lithium as long as you don’t live in a Cold climate. Be aware that LiFePO4 chemistries or a Shorai require a special Li charger. 

my stock battery is waining but still doing fair considering it’s 7 years old. Keeping them charged when not in use is key. You won’t get more than 1-3 years out of anything if you don’t keep it on a tender. I keep my finger on the start button for a 1/2 second longer and it still fires up

do you know how to test for excessive draw (load, as you referred to it…)? It requires a VOM in the correct, fused position. If not, post back and I’ll walk you through it. 

ALL modern bikes have a brief “spark” when the battery is reconnected. It doesn’t mean they have excessive draw. The FI system and (sometimes) multiple ECM’s often draw a quick zap of higher current before settling into a minimal <1 A key off draw when the battery is initially connected. Pretty normal. 
-Skip

 STG is the only distributor I found that I can purchase an authentic Yausa YTZ10s battery for $200. I'd guess @ that price, I'd be better to just buy a lithium of either a Shorai or the LifePO4. Would a Battery tender made for lithium batteries be sufficient  for charging them or must I buy they're specific charger, and I have a local Batteryplus store nearby; would they're own brand X2 lithium be of any good quality in comparison ?

Thanks For Replies..

1 hour ago, texscottyd said:

I don’t know if applies to our bikes, but apparently many vehicles don’t fire the ignition until multiple parameters are met during the starting cycle.   So a certain minimum rpm threshold on the starter, AND a minimum voltage to trigger the coils & ignition.  

My wife’s Lincoln MKX did exactly what you described, and replacing the apparently ‘good’ battery cleared it up.  Interestingly, I ran that same battery in my old analog F150 for another 2 years without issue.   

Modern electronics are amazing and mystifying… 😀

Yea, my older 07 Ninja 650R was basic as such, battery lasted as long as it did (10 years). Also; there's a small continuous load on the FJ battery I noticed when I took the battery out. I'm not sure what it is, but probably the memory for the settings. anything aftermarket I installed is wired off a  switched line. What is that load? Also the battery tested defective.  Warrantee on battery  is outdated. Not Fair from a one year old battery ! I'll have to spend more $$ this time I guess. The battery I'm replacing is a SCORPION from  BATTERYSTUFF; if that made a difference.

3 minutes ago, howie333 said:

Thanks; I'll check if there's a load, but the engine turns over effortlessly, and sounds as if it will run, but not.  When charged for a half hour, turns over the same , but starts right up. If there's more than enough voltage to spin the starter, shouldn't there be enough voltage to run the ignition ?

  

6 hours ago, dazzler24 said:

Hi Howie.  You don't have anything connected directly to the battery that may be sapping power while it's sitting idle?

e.g. I once had directly connected a small device that provided USB outlets and displayed my battery voltage on a small display but it was draining my battery at a rate that brought the voltage under the start voltage if I hadn't used my bike for a while.  Such a small thing but was enough.

May not be an issue for you but thought I'd mention it JIK.

It of course could well be just a dud battery as the venerable skipperT has mentioned.

Thanks; I'll check if there's a load, but the engine turns over effortlessly, and sounds as if it will run, but not.  When charged for a half hour, turns over the same , but starts right up.

2 hours ago, skipperT said:

12.4 on a charged battery isn’t enough. what’s the measured voltage across the battery terminals after the key is switched on for 30 seconds (and fully charged and off batt tender) if less than 12.2-12.3 =NG.

Replace it again with a name brand battery, or return the one you purchased for a new one if it’s under warranty. 

-Skip

Please Name a Name brand battery. I'd thought most all motorcycle batteries are made in a universal warehouse and are mostly similar quality unless I go lithium$$.  OEM battery only lasted a little over 3 years in my 17 FJ-09, but an older Kawasaki Ninja 650r I had OEM lasted over 10 years !! This battery only made it as year ! Not good. I think it came from Battery Stuff and cost approx. $100. I'm calling them tomorrow.

Bike won't start up. turns over continually fine and sounds like engine is about to start, but when start switch is released. nothing. Then  battery is reading @ 11.9 volts. When battery is charged, I meter @ 12.4 volts and will start right up and if I shut off and start up several times in a row; problem  of not starting will repeat. I get 14.8 volts when running . Battery replaced less than a year ago. Bike is kept inside and occasionally put on battery tender if bike is down for more than a couple of weeks.  

Anyone have this problem; and If so, please help

Thank You...

17 hours ago, 2and3cylinders said:

Reduce fork fluid level and/or go to 16cst @ 40C viscosity (not all, for example, 5w fluid is the same); you must go by cst.

Also, 35 mm rear and 25 mm front sag (set based on proper technique) after 45 mph "panic" brake test should be the target.

http://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycle/fork-oil.html

https://transmoto.com.au/Comparative-Oil-Weights-Table/

https://www.peterverdone.com/archive/files/suspension oils.pdf

mix thy own...

https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html

or try this 5w

https://www.ebay.com/itm/231115711119?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1ky2Nhj02QBuCwkrNdtPTkw14&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=231115711119&targetid=4580702890871448&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=418640321&mkgroupid=1233652283797640&rlsatarget=pla-4580702890871448&abcId=9300602&merchantid=51291&msclkid=61d8dab1bc691713e82cbb1cc51d50c1

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0058/8110/2447/files/RFF.pdf

 

 

 Fast Bike informed me They were out of the Ohlins fluid they usually use, but the Maxima 85-150 5W fork fluid was a CST @40c matchup, and air gap of 120mm. 

TNX for reply...

I recently did a Andreani fork Cartridge and Nitron shock exchange. the shock was easy to set spring preload. The forks presently minimum comp/rebound damping to test. The shock w/ reservoir comp/rebound is set from Nitron for my riding style and weight. I left them there cause it feels right so far. I set the front and rear preloads for 30% total suspension travel which comes to 41mm front and 39mm rear sag.   There are only 4 turns or rebound and compression damping. Tech @Fast Bike Industries told me to reduce torques of triple tree bolts from spec., to soften fork action from excessive clamping and it's done often; but never heard of that. I'm not sure if that's safe or by what # to retorque ?

Any advise; TNX...    

Well. I called Fast bike Industries and told me I needed to calculate percentages of sag for street riding. for   street riding  should be 30-35% of fork and shock travel (preferably 30% aggresive street riding), which measures 41mm fork and 39mm for shock. I used the motool device, and still rather tricky to adjust. Adjusting the shock causes to recheck the forks and so on till you get it right. I'll have to ride it tomarrow to warm oil, and recheck. I'll check back a later time.

Howie..   

Just checked receipt; spring = 8.3. I gave them my weight and riding style. 165 lbs. and street/canyon riding. I'll call them in morn. Is sag in the forks measured same as the rear shock ?  

 I recently got the Andreani fork and Nitron shock upgrade install done.  I had to purchase a few tools, but was not difficult to install. I purchased thru Fast Bike Industries. I sent them my weight and riding style. I decided on purchasing and installing the NTR-R2 2 way double damper to match the adjustability of the fork cartridges. the Nitron shock and reservoir exchange went in well, and was preset to spec from factory; I just touched up the preload to get 35mm sag. The Andreani fork wasn't factory preset because of assembly and install needed.  What I'm disappointed in so far is the spring rate seem to be too light !! i'm not happy here, esp. if I have to tare down the forks again ! I measured accurately using the MOTOOL preload measuring tool as I've used before. With all rebound and compression all out (ccw)I raised front wheel off ground; set MOTOOL to "0", set bike up to find unlaiden setting, then get on bike w/gear. W/preload ccw(all open), total sag is 57-59mm, and when preload is maxed out ,I'm getting 40-42mm.  I think for the street I should be @aprox. 35mm w/ minimal preload before any rebound or compression damping is set.

Am I setting up tool wrong for the forks ?

thanks Howie...

1 hour ago, skipperT said:

Great choice, Howie. I’m sure you’re excited! Keep us posted on how it goes. 
 

-Skip

No , actually, my wife is excited I FINALLY made a choice ! I'm just relieved...😐

9 hours ago, howie333 said:

Thanks for reply;

I just have to decide betweeen K-Tech, Stoltec's(GP fork and Penske shock), or Andreani forks and Nitron shock. i'm sure it's a good valve kit and shock, but For the price of Stoltec's fork piston kit upgrade and penske 8983 shock, I could use the K-tech's Razor R shock w/ compression dampning/nitrogencanister and the 201DS fork cartridges for only $160 more !  not sure the diff. between the 2 of these choices.

TNX... 

  

Well;I decided on the Andriani 105/Y07E fork cartridges adjustable preload rebound and compression and the Nitron NTR2 shock w/ compession cartridge set up for my riding style and weight.   subtotal Just under $1600.  

6 hours ago, duckie said:

If you want to be able to fine tune the ride and handling, yes.

Compression damping helps control the rate a force is put into a spring thereby helping control what you feel in the bars or seat of your pants. In addition, adjusting low speed dampening controls when the high speed circuit is used.

It helps controls the speed of fork dive when braking.

It helps controls rear end squat coming out of corners helping prevent running wide under hard acceleration out of turns.

I use how well a bump is handled when lean over in a turn to help set up suspension. Having adjustable compression helps with this.

Id go for fully adjustable suspension. 
 

 

Thanks for reply;

I just have to decide betweeen K-Tech, Stoltec's(GP fork and Penske shock), or Andreani forks and Nitron shock. i'm sure it's a good valve kit and shock, but For the price of Stoltec's fork piston kit upgrade and penske 8983 shock, I could use the K-tech's Razor R shock w/ compression dampning/nitrogencanister and the 201DS fork cartridges for only $160 more !  not sure the diff. between the 2 of these choices.

TNX... 

 Is compression damping being adjustable somewhat important ? That's what would  justify for me the fork cartridge and shock upgrades.  

23 hours ago, KellyL said:

Worth mentioning that sport tourers as a genre emerged during the late 80s and early 90s from people literally modifying sportbikes to go touring on. VF/VFR750 and GPZ1100 etc were originally marketed as hardcore sportbikes.

With that in mind the MT09/Tracer platform is quite sporty when you look at the fundamental geometry and weight specs. Rake/trail is actually the same as a 1996 GSX-R750 SRAD, and only 10kg more wet weight.

So IMHO the answer is 'yes' you can get "true" sportbike handling, but analogous to one that is 1-2 decades older. But if you meant a contemporary sportbike such as a 2020 R6, then the answer is 'no' because there have been so many advances made since then (weight reduction, BPF forks, brakes, tuned flex in frame, unsprung weight, etc).

P.S.: and to clarify from your quote "high speed precise cornering", that means different things on street vs track. Which were you referring to?

(Spending money on stickier tyres instead of suspension + old worn tyres probably offers more value... @howie333 going back to your original suspension post, maybe a fork oil change + some decent Diablo Rossos is all you need; things have escalated somewhat since then )

P.P.S: the RS660 isn't a top-shelf sportbike either, as opposed to an R6 or ZX6R - it's been built down to a price and still runs a basic emulsion shock + old school 1990s KYB cartridge forks. It's more like an SV650S after a nip and tuck.

Rode a Honda CBR1000, in line 4 whine, sat on several supersports(zx's and gsx's), similar engine tuning and clip-ons. 

1 hour ago, KellyL said:

Worth mentioning that sport tourers as a genre emerged during the late 80s and early 90s from people literally modifying sportbikes to go touring on. VF/VFR750 and GPZ1100 etc were originally marketed as hardcore sportbikes.

With that in mind the MT09/Tracer platform is quite sporty when you look at the fundamental geometry and weight specs. Rake/trail is actually the same as a 1996 GSX-R750 SRAD, and only 10kg more wet weight.

So IMHO the answer is 'yes' you can get "true" sportbike handling, but analogous to one that is 1-2 decades older. But if you meant a contemporary sportbike such as a 2020 R6, then the answer is 'no' because there have been so many advances made since then (weight reduction, BPF forks, brakes, tuned flex in frame, unsprung weight, etc).

P.S.: and to clarify from your quote "high speed precise cornering", that means different things on street vs track. Which were you referring to?

(Spending money on stickier tyres instead of suspension + old worn tyres probably offers more value... @howie333 going back to your original suspension post, maybe a fork oil change + some decent Diablo Rossos is all you need; things have escalated somewhat since then )

P.P.S: the RS660 isn't a top-shelf sportbike either, as opposed to an R6 or ZX6R - it's been built down to a price and still runs a basic emulsion shock + old school 1990s KYB cartridge forks. It's more like an SV650S after a nip and tuck.

 The aprilia's performance parrellel twin has great looks, sound and vibes and ergo's w/ character that make it a really fun bike to blast around back roads and such that most in line 4 sport bikes dont have.  I'd have to put some money into the suspension though, and maybe a pipe, but still a fun 2nd ride. Considered Ducati but maintenance and cost and the heat on legs is a deal breaker.

1 hour ago, duckie said:

Some misinformation in this thread.

Yes a tracer can corner exact and precise as a sport bike. My Tracer GT with stock adjustable suspension stays put wherever I put it in a turn. It turns in when and where I want it. It holds a line out of turns even when hard on the gas.

Put some proper suspension components on a FJ/Tracer you will get sport bike type handling with a comfortable riding position. 

If dont have the skill to ride fast, no suspension upgrade will magically give you the skill to ride fast. Nor will getting another motorcycle.

My gut is telling me he doesnt have the skill to ride fast. This is based on just the questions asked about suspension. A fast rider would know to upgrade the suspension and not ask about it.

How many years of riding the dragon? It takes knowing a road like the back of your hand to be able to truly ride fast on it. I took a rider on 08 cbr1000 with all Ohlins on one of my favorite twisty roads and left him in the dust…….riding a 94 Seca II. Even on the track my mighty Seca and me was leaving 1000 cc sports bike behind.

Just get the suspension upgraded, do some track days. 

 

 

ok ; I know i'm somewhat timid on that road and never will push my limits there. sometimes if i ride it several times, it seems to get easier, more relaxed and do better. Yea; I got passed up be a 84 Honda Sabre yesterday.😔 i'll have to improve my skills; something to think about.  I still may want a different 2nd smaller/lighter bike anyways. I'm still on fence between an K-tech (201DS fork cart./razor R shock) or Stoltec's (GP cart forks/penske 8983 shock); $620 diff. GP forks and Penske shock being higher. 

Thanks for reply...

On 3/12/2022 at 7:30 AM, Cogswell said:

You need another bike, use the correct tool for the job at hand. Otherwise just back off a bit and enjoy what you have at a slower pace.

I probably will do a suspension upgrade, and may also be picking up a 2nd bike just for specific type riding sa. the Aprilia RS 660; and I know even that bike will need a few upgrades.

tnx....

K-Tech told me to use a higher range weight spring in the rear for my weight calls for. My rider weight is 170lb and w/ gear is 180lb. Their rear shocks rating would be for 145-175lbs, or 175-210lbs  I just worry it might be too stiff. I'm not sure how he figures it, and said it doesnt matter how I ride it. The fronts choices would be at  either 160-200lb (8.5kg/mm) and 180-220lb (9kg/mm). Their he told me to stay within the lighter of the two.

Should i be ok? There are no suspension shops where I live, but I can communicate with these companies by phone and e'mail. best I got. I live closer to Traxxion Dynamics in Georgia, but much pricier .

thank You for replies..

12 hours ago, betoney said:

Nothing wrong with any of the brands you mentioned.  Are you going to order an off the shelf piece or get a custom setup?

My personal opinion - just like an aftermarket seat, I would much prefer getting suspension built to my exact specs rather than a generic off the shelf unit.  A generic unit might work just fine but I have always discussed specifics with a suspension technician and had them build it to my wants and needs.

To answer your question, I currently have a Penske shock from Traxxion Dynamics, I also had the same on my previous FZ1.  Up front I have custom revalved oem fork cartridges. 

K-tech and Traxxion Dynamics and others offer spring rates for different rider weights AFAIK. Is that considered custom fit ? also penske is more costly than others mentioned.

I've decided apon many suggestions to upgrade both the front forks and rear shock probably with compression and rebound adjustments. Some have recomended K-TECH. years ago I had Traxxion Dynamics set up w/ a Penske rear shock and there own spring kit for kawasaki Ninja 650. There's many others including Ohlins, progresive, and Racetech to name a few. A fellow on You Tube (2 wheel obsession) uses a company Stoltec more specific for Yamaha MT and FJ series gives full detail on parts, tools, and rebuild procedures for DIY or complete replacement upgrades. what would or have you to do or have done? If I go w/ K-Tech should I buy the front fork Piston kit or go for the cartridges ? I guess that would get me full comp and rebound damping, and then there's the Razor R w/ the compression cartridge.  

 Thanks...

12 hours ago, KellyL said:

@howie333 I think you would get a lot out of reading this book. It's worth the $30.

Book will inform you about shock differences, independent of brand hype (which are just variations on the fundamental).

• Twin tube (Koni/Ikon, those dual shocks on a Royal Enfield or Ural)
• Emulsion (your factory shock, Penske 8900E, Hyperpro 460)
• Single tube DeCarbon (K-Tech Razor Lite, Penske 8975, Nitron NTR-R1)
• Remote reservoir (K-Tech Razor R, Penske 8983, Nitron NTR-R2 and above)

I'd base brand choice on access to after-sales support.

The correct answer is "it depends"

I agree. Depends on where you ride, how you ride, how much you and your luggage +/- passenger weighs, how much you want to spend, etc. Sky is the limit.

I put Nitron TVT cartridges + NTR-R1 rear into another bike and yes it improved it heaps, but for about 20% of the bike's purchase price. I purposely budgeted for a cheaper bike + suspension mods rather than more expensive bike, so I could have it exactly as I wanted.

In the meantime I can live with the crappy rear shock on my Niken as it's fine for how I ride it.

(Noticed in your other post that you might be getting an Aprilia RS660... AFAIK the springs on that are pretty soft too 🤣 )

Thanks for info; I just ordered the suspension Bible. sounds like a 1st step. I'm still on fence about the Aprilia RS660, with oil leaks, computer glitches, but you'd just have to demo that bike to experience the Total fun factor; I figure a great 2nd backroad bike. The Truimp Street Triple, or other similar nakeds not great @ speed w/o a fairing/sheild or ride position. The R7 doesn't do it for me either w/ feel or looks.